Plug time (grin):
NEW WEBSITE PORTAL FOR LINUX NEWCOMERS ANNOUNCED
SUNNYVALE, CA - September 29, 1999 - As more and more industry-leading companies such as Corel Computer, IBM and Sun Microsystems back the Open Source Operating System Linux, an alternative to Microsoft Windows, a new web portal site is today announced targetting those new to the Linux and Open Source world.
LinuxNewbie.com - "LNC", spearheaded by British webmaster James Green and a team of volunteers worldwide, aims to introduce the public to the new OS, and guide them through the various aspects of the system from the many situations in which Linux can be used - both in the server and desktop environments.
LNC will contain regularly updated reviews and previews on current and forthcoming software, Features covering specialist topics such as networking and security, a comprehensive searchable database of problems and solutions, Opinion columns from staff and visitor-submissions, Tutorials covering popular software, a forum where new users can ask their questions and view answers over the web, a regularly updated news facility and much more.
Site Manager James Green said today, "LNC will we hope provide a leading source of news, information and guidance to the many new Linux users out there. We also understand that while many people may have used Microsoft Windows OSes before, many may not have, and so our content will not be focused solely on Windows to Linux transitions - it will cover all backgrounds and should provide a useful insight into Linux for those who are still thinking of installing it."
LNC has the support of leading Linux solutions-provider VA Linux Systems, Inc. who are providing the facilities at no cost to make the site possible.
James Green added, "As a project aimed at the Open Source community, we welcome the involvement of the public in making the web site as friendly and comprehensive as possible, therefore applications from visitors to assist us in achieving this will be encouraged together with regular feedback."
The site will launch during October.
About LNC LNC is a non-profit project staffed by a team of volunteers around the world led by Site Manager James Green to create and expand the portal website LinuxNewbie.com to the benefit of newcomers to Linux and Open Source community software. It aims to provide helpful and friendly advice and support to all those who need it wherever they may be. LNC can be found at http://LinuxNewbie.com/ or by email to feedback@linuxnewbie.com.
About VA Linux Systems VA Linux Systems is a leading provider of Linux computer systems, support and Internet services. VA is a pioneer in providing high performance workstations and servers to enterprises, service providers and technical computing markets and is at the forefront of the open source revolution. VA also sponsors Linux.com, a leading Linux portal developed and maintained by members of the Linux community. Based in Sunnyvale, Calif., the privately held company has gained a reputation for innovation and responsiveness that is making it a leader in full service Linux solutions. For more information contact VA at http://www.valinux.com, 888-LINUX-4U or by sending email to sales@valinux.com.
Contact: James Green Site Manager, LinuxNewbie.com - LNC jg@linuxnewbie.com
VA Linux Systems Eureka Endo, 408/542-5754 eureka@valinux.com
way to go James ;)... all the best...
Scoobz
jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
Plug time (grin):
NEW WEBSITE PORTAL FOR LINUX NEWCOMERS ANNOUNCED
SUNNYVALE, CA - September 29, 1999 - As more and more industry-leading companies such as Corel Computer, IBM and Sun Microsystems back the Open Source Operating System Linux, an alternative to Microsoft Windows, a new web portal site is today announced targetting those new to the Linux and Open Source world.
LinuxNewbie.com - "LNC", spearheaded by British webmaster James Green and a team of volunteers worldwide, aims to introduce the public to the new OS, and guide them through the various aspects of the system from the many situations in which Linux can be used - both in the server and desktop environments.
LNC will contain regularly updated reviews and previews on current and forthcoming software, Features covering specialist topics such as networking and security, a comprehensive searchable database of problems and solutions, Opinion columns from staff and visitor-submissions, Tutorials covering popular software, a forum where new users can ask their questions and view answers over the web, a regularly updated news facility and much more.
Site Manager James Green said today, "LNC will we hope provide a leading source of news, information and guidance to the many new Linux users out there. We also understand that while many people may have used Microsoft Windows OSes before, many may not have, and so our content will not be focused solely on Windows to Linux transitions - it will cover all backgrounds and should provide a useful insight into Linux for those who are still thinking of installing it."
LNC has the support of leading Linux solutions-provider VA Linux Systems, Inc. who are providing the facilities at no cost to make the site possible.
James Green added, "As a project aimed at the Open Source community, we welcome the involvement of the public in making the web site as friendly and comprehensive as possible, therefore applications from visitors to assist us in achieving this will be encouraged together with regular feedback."
The site will launch during October.
About LNC LNC is a non-profit project staffed by a team of volunteers around the world led by Site Manager James Green to create and expand the portal website LinuxNewbie.com to the benefit of newcomers to Linux and Open Source community software. It aims to provide helpful and friendly advice and support to all those who need it wherever they may be. LNC can be found at http://LinuxNewbie.com/ or by email to feedback@linuxnewbie.com.
About VA Linux Systems VA Linux Systems is a leading provider of Linux computer systems, support and Internet services. VA is a pioneer in providing high performance workstations and servers to enterprises, service providers and technical computing markets and is at the forefront of the open source revolution. VA also sponsors Linux.com, a leading Linux portal developed and maintained by members of the Linux community. Based in Sunnyvale, Calif., the privately held company has gained a reputation for innovation and responsiveness that is making it a leader in full service Linux solutions. For more information contact VA at http://www.valinux.com, 888-LINUX-4U or by sending email to sales@valinux.com.
Contact: James Green Site Manager, LinuxNewbie.com - LNC jg@linuxnewbie.com
VA Linux Systems Eureka Endo, 408/542-5754 eureka@valinux.com
-- James Green jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk Site Manager jg@linuxnewbie.com LinuxNewbie.com LNC http://www.cyberstorm.demon.co.uk/
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:29:00PM +0100, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
NEW WEBSITE PORTAL FOR LINUX NEWCOMERS ANNOUNCED
So that'll mean that either: a) you got CVS and MySQL working on the new system, the code has been finished and undergone full peer review, the material has been written and market-tested by focus groups, then updated accordingly, all since I last looked at the mailing list on Monday;
OR
b) You're gonna be toast and give Linux a bad name by rolling out another unstable website :(
Hope my pessimism is groundless...
MJR
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
MJ Ray wrote:
On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:29:00PM +0100, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
NEW WEBSITE PORTAL FOR LINUX NEWCOMERS ANNOUNCED
So that'll mean that either: a) you got CVS and MySQL working on the new system, the code has been finished and undergone full peer review, the material has been written and market-tested by focus groups, then updated accordingly, all since I last looked at the mailing list on Monday;
OR
b) You're gonna be toast and give Linux a bad name by rolling out another unstable website :(
Hope my pessimism is groundless...
MJR
So do I. I really don't want to knock what is a great initiative, but I just tried to have a look-see and the site is still "coming soon". Is this a pre-release of the press release?
I think the site should be subjected to some peer-review first...
Cheers, Laurie.
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
MJ Ray wrote:
On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:29:00PM +0100, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
NEW WEBSITE PORTAL FOR LINUX NEWCOMERS ANNOUNCED
So that'll mean that either: a) you got CVS and MySQL working on the new system, the code has been finished and undergone full peer review, the material has been written and market-tested by focus groups, then updated accordingly, all since I last looked at the mailing list on Monday;
OR
b) You're gonna be toast and give Linux a bad name by rolling out another unstable website :(
Hope my pessimism is groundless...
MJR
Hmmm, it's advertised on linux.com, but the site's not active.
Cheers, Laurie.
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Laurie Brown wrote:
Hmmm, it's advertised on linux.com, but the site's not active.
As stated in the P-R, the launch date is broadly speaking October. As MJR has mentioned, this date is ambitious, but it should be noted that I WILL NOT LAUNCH until the LNC Team feels it is ready. October is the wish-month and I am not afraid is holding back into November or even further if it means that visitors get a better first impression with content, design and stability. I have certain targets for content which is open to discussion on the lnc list.
I am happy to state my thoughts on the launch date in public unlike certain Companies who ship products possibly considered too early.
In hindsight, the launch date could have been witheld from the P-R, but since no-one on list mentioned this after two postings of the draft copy, I made the call and accept any flak should we not be held to it. The words "shit happens" comes to mind ;-)
To be perfectly honest, who is likely to rebuff us for missing October?
And if you'd like to help us in the project, get in touch and maybe you can help make it faster and better!
I hope this clarifies matters for you. Feel free to forward this to anyone else who wants to know about the launch date too.
On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
As stated in the P-R, the launch date is broadly speaking October.
Okay. You have announced a site in a press release. When people go to the site, they see "coming soon". What impression does that convey?
As MJR has mentioned, this date is ambitious, but it should be noted that I WILL NOT LAUNCH until the LNC Team feels it is ready.
What you have just done is effectively launch the site. Why publicise a site that is not yet open for business?
October is the wish-month
There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting ambitious deadlines. What you shouldn't do is fall into the vapourware trap. How many articles does LNC have ready for the punters?
I am happy to state my thoughts on the launch date in public unlike certain Companies who ship products possibly considered too early.
Irrelevant.
In hindsight, the launch date could have been witheld from the P-R, but since no-one on list mentioned this after two postings of the draft copy, I made the call and accept any flak should we not be held to it. The words "shit happens" comes to mind ;-)
Yeah, shit happens. I remember the posting of the draft copy of the press release, but don't remember you saying "guys, I'm going to announce this".
To be perfectly honest, who is likely to rebuff us for missing October?
Er, our public? People visiting LNC following on from the publicity. To be honest, the "coming soon" message gives a bad name to every one of us associated with the project.
And if you'd like to help us in the project, get in touch and maybe you can help make it faster and better!
...and just pray we get it up and ready before the publicity. Oh, whoops.
Andrew.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Web Consultant | Email: a.savory at uea.ac.uk IT and Computing Services | URL: http://www.uea.ac.uk/ University of East Anglia | All views are my own - Norwich, NR4 7TJ, UK | who else would want them? o-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
Andrew Savory wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
As stated in the P-R, the launch date is broadly speaking October.
Okay. You have announced a site in a press release. When people go to the site, they see "coming soon". What impression does that convey?
[Much good stuff snipped]
James,
I'm not slagging you off. I admire your enterprise, fully support what you are doing, and I wish you all success. However, Andrew is right. I'm disposed towards you, but I was shocked to see that the site wasn't ready, and it does send the wrong message. IMO.
If you want some peer review, open up privately in a subdirectory and we'll take a look.
Cheers, Laurie.
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Andrew Savory wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
As stated in the P-R, the launch date is broadly speaking October.
Okay. You have announced a site in a press release. When people go to the site, they see "coming soon". What impression does that convey?
OK, my intentions of announcing that the project exists and that we will be here soon may not be received in exactly that way. This is clear from you and Laurie and MJR are saying. To you and any others who understood for whatever reason that the site was to launch immediately I unreservedly apologise.
I obviously under-emphasised the line about October, and even this may have been wrong. I can only hope that the majority of people don't take it that the site is up and running, and to this time I haven't received any mails to that effect other than ALUG ones.
As MJR has mentioned, this date is ambitious, but it should be noted that I WILL NOT LAUNCH until the LNC Team feels it is ready.
What you have just done is effectively launch the site. Why publicise a site that is not yet open for business?
To generate interest, why else? The GNOME project was announced before GNOME-1.0 got out. They wanted interest, developers, feedback, publicity. To a point, so do we.
October is the wish-month
There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting ambitious deadlines. What you shouldn't do is fall into the vapourware trap. How many articles does LNC have ready for the punters?
At no point did I say that the site was ready. In your eyes (and I dare say many others) the date published is premature. I accept that that is conceivable, and I again apologise if that is the case. But I am determined to roll out the site with good content and have it regularly updated, if the team doesn't deliver, we can't succeed and we will be history, we as a voluntary project can only try our best.
In hindsight, the launch date could have been witheld from the P-R, but since no-one on list mentioned this after two postings of the draft copy, I made the call and accept any flak should we not be held to it. The words "shit happens" comes to mind ;-)
Yeah, shit happens. I remember the posting of the draft copy of the press release, but don't remember you saying "guys, I'm going to announce this".
I'm sorry, but I did try and make that clear. I don't remember the exactly text used on both the draft posts, but I do remember saying that this was to be released, and gave the date in the P-R itself.
To be perfectly honest, who is likely to rebuff us for missing October?
Er, our public? People visiting LNC following on from the publicity. To be honest, the "coming soon" message gives a bad name to every one of us associated with the project.
I'm sorry, I disagree. To anyone eagre enough to visit the site over October and then fire complaints at us if we don't deliver in October, I will apologise.
I suspect that while linuxnewbie.com may be of reasonable profile name and ambition-wise, delays will be tolerated while we get it right. Again I may be wrong, but since the deed is done, I can only but work to get it right ASAP. In six months time will everyone be saying, "LNC - the site who launched after the announced date"? I obviously can't guarantee there won't be, but I bet our primary audience won't be.
And if you'd like to help us in the project, get in touch and maybe you can help make it faster and better!
...and just pray we get it up and ready before the publicity. Oh, whoops.
Sorry. I suggest we get back to more constructive work rather than this conversation which is obviously not in anyone's interests.
jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
[Lots snipped]
James,
Don't feel bad, mate. What you're doing is admirable, and one little mistake doesn't negate everything else you did/have done/will do. Chin up, and move on! If you want anything reviewed, proof-read etc., just ask.
Cheers, Laurie.
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
Don't feel bad, mate. What you're doing is admirable, and one little mistake doesn't negate everything else you did/have done/will do. Chin up, and move on! If you want anything reviewed, proof-read etc., just ask.
Agreed, but can we *please* *please* *please* (begging? me?) have the code-base in CVS - some of us have got 'quite a lot' of experience of web application design, and I'm pretty sure it will do the project good to have a few more eyes and brains working on it. James - trust me, maintaining a wodge of code the size of LNC *will not* be fun - many hands make light work.
Thoughts?
Paul
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
On Sat, 2 Oct 1999, Laurie Brown wrote:
James,
Don't feel bad, mate. What you're doing is admirable, and one little mistake doesn't negate everything else you did/have done/will do. Chin up, and move on! If you want anything reviewed, proof-read etc., just ask.
Thanks Laurie!
What I might do when we have some real substance for testing is let you ALUGers have a page to set a cookie unlocking the site so you can test it, and submit your comments and opinions on it. For the past 24/48hours I've been bogged down with mails about the P-R - a number of offers from other sites wanting some form of co-operation, others from people asking for help and advice, others still asking if they can get involved.
Maybe later this month I'll unlock the site under Beta test for all to comment on. I'm not a fan of complete-openness during initial construction since without carefull management of opinions, things may get bogged down uneccessarily, but I am a big fan of small groups of people testing things out and providing unbiased opinion, and that's what I want.
Once again, we are accepting people who want to help us out, so if you or people you know have ideas for the site or excess time and skills, please email me - we can always do with more numbers!
And just as I went to bed last night at 3am, I saw linuxtoday covering an ecommercetimes.com article about us. Quite an amazing response, much more than I'd expected :)
On Sat, Oct 02, 1999 at 12:29:40AM +0100, jg@cyberstorm.demon.co.uk wrote:
To generate interest, why else? The GNOME project was announced before GNOME-1.0 got out. They wanted interest, developers, feedback, publicity. To a point, so do we.
At least GNOME had shown some people something. Not even your own team has seen anything other than vapourware so far, AIUI. Also, the PR you put out was a full-blown launch announcement, not a call for contributors.
Open the project...
I'm sorry, but I did try and make that clear. I don't remember the exactly text used on both the draft posts, but I do remember saying that this was to be released, and gave the date in the P-R itself.
You said on 9 September: "Will be released later this week."
I'm sorry, I disagree. To anyone eagre enough to visit the site over October and then fire complaints at us if we don't deliver in October, I will apologise.
As I said on IRC, people tend not to email you with complaints unless they "own" the site in some way (does this tally with the experience of other large site webmasters here?). The vast majority just ignore you. I just hope that they don't ignore you with a "oh that again" when you do actually launch.
I suspect that while linuxnewbie.com may be of reasonable profile name and ambition-wise, delays will be tolerated while we get it right. Again I may be wrong, but since the deed is done, I can only but work to get it right ASAP. In six months time will everyone be saying, "LNC - the site who launched after the announced date"? I obviously can't guarantee there won't be, but I bet our primary audience won't be.
You're not going to get it to work right soon, if ever, with one man working alone on most of the site. You're also going to burn yourself out before long. Open the project...
You should be worrying whether people will be saying in six months time: "LNC, that didn't last long, did it?", "LNC, not as good as linuxnewbie.org" or "LNC, they crashed lots when they launched". (Actually, that last is my biggest concern and the reason why I speak out, as it would once again tarnish Linux's name... and it's totally avoidable.)
Sorry. I suggest we get back to more constructive work rather than this conversation which is obviously not in anyone's interests.
No, this conversation is not in *YOUR* interests because it highlights shortcomings in the operation of LNC at the moment. Willing developers are denied access to the code. Attempts to start useful discussion are stifled. Lists of jobs are spat out with rude subject lines (eg JOBS #3 - READ OR DIE). Actions on a volunteer project are taken without asking the volunteers. Statements like "we frikkin' kill LNO" (referring to linuxnewbie.org) go uncontested, yet you get upset when ln.o views you as hostile competition.
Having a good, healthy, working LNC is in the interests of Linux users everywhere and is a worthwhile and noble aim. So let Linux users everywhere help: Open the project...
MJR
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
MJ Ray wrote:
[SNIP]
As I said on IRC, people tend not to email you with complaints unless they "own" the site in some way (does this tally with the experience of other large site webmasters here?). The vast majority just ignore you. I just hope that they don't ignore you with a "oh that again" when you do actually launch.
My experience confirms this: I've had an antiques glossary site up for several years now. It was a project that I started and which just died through lack of my time to keep it gpoing. The glossary stands, and is as valid now as it ever was, but it hasn't grown or developed at all. On it, and in the rec.antiqwues newsgroup, I've oft-solicited copntributions. Have a guess how many have been forthcoming... That's right, NONE. The site, however, gets hundred of visits a week.
FWIW, I go along with MJR: open the site, and CVS the source. Privately of course, and by invitation only perhaps. As Paul said, some of us do know a bit of HTML and Java.
Cheers, Laurie.
[ This email came to you via the Anglian Linux User Group list ] [ If you only wish to recieve event announcements, email the ] [ SUBJECTs of "unsubscribe alug" and "subscribe alug-announce" ] [ to listserver@stu.uea.ac.uk -- We do need your support, tho' ]
MJ Ray wrote:
Having a good, healthy, working LNC is in the interests of Linux users everywhere and is a worthwhile and noble aim. So let Linux users everywhere help: Open the project...
I agree. Linux is now known in Asia but there's lack of information here. Asian LINUX has troubles over the language, the information, and the cultures of computing knowledge. I am sure LNC will give better ideas to Linux community wherever they are.
PS: I can retrieve LNC quick here from Japan, so no problem for the bandwidth likewise.
-
Andrew Savory -
jg＠cyberstorm.demon.co.uk -
Laurie Brown -
MJ Ray -
Neill Newman -
Paul Russell -
Tatsuhiko Maekawa