Dear LUGers
I'm been on the ALUG and PLUG mailing lists for some time now (watching and listening) and I'm a sixth form student at Bourne Grammar School. The school is seriously considering setting up a room of around 10 dedicated linux machines in our IT suite which will be a welcome addition to our current NT/2000 network of around 200 PCs.
The Director, Mr C. has tried to install Debian at home but has come across the same problems as I did, both of us being newbies to GNU/Linux. We've set up one box in the school with Redhat 8.0 which worked fine and can see the network, but at the moment is sitting there doing nothing (mainly due to my exams).
The primary aim is to introduce Open Source to the school on some old 233Mhz PIIs that will be available to use when we (eventually) get a new batch of PCs before the end of the academic year. But if we're going to be able to justify removing the "friendly world of microsoft" from an entire IT room the machines will have to be usable by everyone in the school for at least some things. They'll ideally need to access their existing Windows home directories, shared printers etc. and at the least be able to use them for word processing with Open Office and web browsing. We're also looking at the possibility of using GNU/Linux for file servers, print servers or even an internal web server running Apache (so I can do PHP programming! yey!)
We're still looking at lots of different distros but it's currently looking like we'll either be going for RedHat or Debian. I'm open to either but really want to get to know Debian which seems the geekier of the two :-)
Firstly I was considering buying a book, either for me or through the school to get me/us started, and wondered if you had any recommendations. I liked the look of "Learning Debian GNU/Linux" [http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565927052/qid%3D1052832905/026-24 92735-5301226] but the reviews on Amazon seem rather negative. It comes with and is written for Debian 2.1 - should we be using Debian 3.0?
Secondly I'd like to ask if anyone in either ALUG or PLUG would be willing to give us any help. We'd LOVE to have someone come in and help us out and if someone would be willing to do a workshop style session for a group of students on either how to install Linux or the basics of using it that could also be an option. There's always the possibility of trying to arrange holding an actual LUG meeting with the school as the venue (?), I've seen requests for a LUG meeting in Bourne on the lists before.- (At school, we have power sockets, a LAN and a dedicated 2 meg internet connection to play with. And round the corner from a few pubs if you are so inclined, what more could we ask for?)
If I can prove that Linux can easily be set up to run side by side with our Micro$oft dominated network with no real problems, then there's a real possibility of the Linux liberation to spread to other parts of the school, and in the longrun saving the school a LOT of money on software licences.
I'm open to any ideas and support in my quest for Open Source in school would be greatly appreciated!
Regards Ben "tola" Francis
PS. thanks for reading my novel length email!
hippygeek.co.uk - me bourne-grammar.lincs.sch.uk -school imen.org.uk -us tolagrafix.co.uk -work
---there is no spoon---
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 03:30:48PM +0100, Ben Francis wrote:
and is written for Debian 2.1 - should we be using Debian 3.0?
Yes - it's the current stable release.
Secondly I'd like to ask if anyone in either ALUG or PLUG would be willing to give us any help.
I'm sure.
IIRC, one of the things we have lined up for next meeting is building Roger a Debian box - you could do worse than to come along and watch!
Hi Ben
I would recommend Knoppix as a very good starting point for a Debian system. It boots and runs from the CD, but does have a facility to install to hard disk. As an easy way to install Debian, I don't think you'll find anything better in it's price range.
Regards, Paul.
On Tuesday 13 May 2003 3:30 pm, Ben Francis wrote:
We're still looking at lots of different distros but it's currently looking like we'll either be going for RedHat or Debian. I'm open to either but really want to get to know Debian which seems the geekier of the two :-)
Hi Ben
I would recommend Knoppix as a very good starting point for a Debian
system.
It boots and runs from the CD, but does have a facility to install to hard disk. As an easy way to install Debian, I don't think you'll find anything better in it's price range.
Yes, PLUG mentioned this. It does sound like a good idea, although I get a nagging feeling that we wouldn't be doing it "properly" for some reason. Of course once we get started we can always try other distros too.
I did also wonder if we should start by dual booting them so that the windows facilities are still there and while we don't have it working completely the computers could still be used for everything they would usually be used for.
Regards Ben Francis
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 06:58:23PM +0100, Ben Francis wrote:
I did also wonder if we should start by dual booting them so that the windows facilities are still there and while we don't have it working completely the computers could still be used for everything they would usually be used for.
I would seriously reccomend that you do not dual boot them, it really puts people off using the system they are less familiar with and in this case we want people to use linux instead of windows. Anyhow are all of the machines you are getting to do this pretty much the same spec? You could always look at something like using FAI http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai because you will need the facility to reinstall machines quickly for when people b****er them up (which they will as its a student lab (and how are people supposed to learn if they can't break things ;))) you could also look at perhaps using a terminal server setup although that would probably suit something with a more centralised and formal admin. Of course the advantage of going the terminal server route means that you can convert most machines to run linux with just a boot floppy, cd or net boot in a few minutes so you are not tied to only having your lab.
Getting the initial debian installs 'nice' can be a bit of hardwork but if you have machines spare to practise on then you will get used to it quite quickly :) I have not used FAI recently (i tried it back in 2000 and it was a little bit ropey back then) but it should have come on lots by now. The main reason I would go for fat clients instead of a terminal server setup is that in the event of something breaking (or you breaking it) you only tend to mess up a couple of machines instead of all of them.
I would also be happy to help you out with some of this. I have experience in setting up Debian desktops and running networks with linux at the core and integrating with windows etc. etc. the main problem that I will have is that I am living in Cambridge so I could perhaps help with the planning what you want to do and give up some time on weekends for this. I could also be available for technical support on the phone during the week if you really needed it (this is when the mailing lists come in handy :))
Anyhow everything you have proposed you want to do with the setup so far sounds good, no stupidly outrageous ideas etc. With some good planning you should be able to get a good setup quite quickly and extend this to do everything you want with minimal effort afterwards. What I would suggest is getting a plan for how it all works first writing it down and then sticking to the plan (or revising it if necessary) as if you throw it all together you will probably have some tricky technical issues a bit later on.
Adam
Adam Bower abower@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Getting the initial debian installs 'nice' can be a bit of hardwork but if you have machines spare to practise on then you will get used to it quite quickly
I've been very impressed today at how neatly the current Debian stable installer goes onto modern hardware. I still had to tell it which video driver to use, but IIRC that can be cured by installing packages in a better order than all at once from tasksel. I'm also making a real effort to configure this system using only debconf and cfengine: and so far, it's working. Next trick will be getting the desktop onto it...
On Tuesday 13 May 2003 6:58 pm, Ben Francis wrote:
Hi Ben
I would recommend Knoppix as a very good starting point for a Debian
system.
It boots and runs from the CD, but does have a facility to install to hard disk. As an easy way to install Debian, I don't think you'll find anything better in it's price range.
Yes, PLUG mentioned this. It does sound like a good idea, although I get a nagging feeling that we wouldn't be doing it "properly" for some reason. Of course once we get started we can always try other distros too.
Make sure you get Synaptic then you can apt-get all the debian goodies you like.
I did also wonder if we should start by dual booting them so that the windows facilities are still there and while we don't have it working completely the computers could still be used for everything they would usually be used for.
Good idea. Make three partions, one for Windoze, and two for alternative Linux distros.
Ian
Hi Ben
I have tried installing Debian the "proper way" using the Deb CDs - Gruesome and arcane in light of the simple GUI installers that some of the use. Knoppix, and the numerous derivatives are by far the easiest method. As an added bonus, you get to try the software out without having to do an install first. Handy when testing hardware compatabilty.
Regards, Paul.
On Tuesday 13 May 2003 6:58 pm, Ben Francis wrote:
Yes, PLUG mentioned this. It does sound like a good idea, although I get a nagging feeling that we wouldn't be doing it "properly" for some reason. Of course once we get started we can always try other distros too.
On Tuesday 13 May 2003 6:00 pm, Paul wrote:
Hi Ben
I would recommend Knoppix as a very good starting point for a Debian system. It boots and runs from the CD, but does have a facility to install to hard disk. As an easy way to install Debian, I don't think you'll find anything better in it's price range.
Regards, Paul.
I'll second that. I have been using linux for quite a few years but only recently tried Debian and installation is definitely geeky. Distros like Knoppix though are a great way to get a Debian distro painlessly on a machine. Knoppix might also be good for you because it includes Open Office which will handle your MS doc reading/writing needs.
As hard drives are relatively cheap you might invest in bigger ones and install both Debian and Red Hat.
Ian
On Tuesday 13 May 2003 15:30, Ben Francis wrote:
Dear LUGers
I am at Skegness Grammar School. We have a suite of 34 Linux machines booting from 2 LTSP servers as well as other open source solutions. Soon to expand to around 70 machines. If you are interested, come and take a look. I have just finished AS and A2 teaching using these machines. Linux is more than capable on the desktop!
Regards Garry Saddington ICT co -ordinator
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Adam Bower -
Ben Francis -
garry saddington -
Ian Bell -
Mike Whitaker -
MJ Ray -
Paul