Hi all, Does anyone have recommendations of UK based VoIP providers? I'm looking for a service with the following kinds of features: * Standards based (SIP) * A PSTN phone number pointing at my SIP account (preferably with a choosable area code) * Outward calls to PSTN at good rates (national, international and mobile) * Dynamic call forwarding (e.g. forward to my mobile at certain times or after a certain number of rings) * Voicemail (preferably with email alerts) I'm really very attracted to Vonage (http://vonage.com) but there's one thing that bothers me. If you want a "softphone" you have to pay for their proprietary service at extra cost and they don't support third party (i.e. open source) alternatives. This rules out using my own SIP client or installing an open source PBX (Asterisk) in the future. They say they're looking at opening up the service but they can't give a timescale. Thanks! Ben -- Ben Francis http://tola.me.uk
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 01:43:16PM +0100, Ben Francis wrote:
Does anyone have recommendations of UK based VoIP providers? I'm looking for a service with the following kinds of features:
Could http://www.sipgate.co.uk/ work for you? Adam -- jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 01:43:16PM +0100, Ben Francis wrote:
Hi all,
Does anyone have recommendations of UK based VoIP providers? I'm looking for a service with the following kinds of features:
* Standards based (SIP) * A PSTN phone number pointing at my SIP account (preferably with a choosable area code) * Outward calls to PSTN at good rates (national, international and mobile) * Dynamic call forwarding (e.g. forward to my mobile at certain times or after a certain number of rings) * Voicemail (preferably with email alerts)
I'm really very attracted to Vonage (http://vonage.com) but there's one thing that bothers me. If you want a "softphone" you have to pay for their proprietary service at extra cost and they don't support third party (i.e. open source) alternatives. This rules out using my own SIP client or installing an open source PBX (Asterisk) in the future. They say they're looking at opening up the service but they can't give a timescale.
Depending on your actual needs, and if you really must use SIP, then: http://www.sipgate.co.uk/ Aren't bad. I'd rather use IAX than SIP though, so I'd recommend: http://www.voiptalk.co.uk/ I've used both of those, we were using sipgate in the london office connected with a Asterix box and 5 sip phones + 2 ISDN Channels, worked well enough. We used voiptalk to terminate PSTN -> VoIP software, works well, easy setup - and for 2 quid a month you can get a regional phone number. Hope that helps, -- Brett Parker
On 27-Jun-07 12:54:25, Brett Parker wrote:
Depending on your actual needs, and if you really must use SIP, then: http://www.sipgate.co.uk/
Aren't bad. I'd rather use IAX than SIP though, so I'd recommend: http://www.voiptalk.co.uk/
Hmmm -- voiptalk.co.uk seem to be "off the air" at the moment! Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <ted.harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 27-Jun-07 Time: 14:08:53 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On 27-Jun-07 13:08:56, Ted Harding wrote:
On 27-Jun-07 12:54:25, Brett Parker wrote:
Depending on your actual needs, and if you really must use SIP, then: http://www.sipgate.co.uk/
Aren't bad. I'd rather use IAX than SIP though, so I'd recommend: http://www.voiptalk.co.uk/
Hmmm -- voiptalk.co.uk seem to be "off the air" at the moment! Ted.
Well, they're back on the air now, and I've had a read. Being totally ignorant till now about VoIP technologies, I found that their "getting started" looked simple enough, and the possibilities are interesting! One question I didn't find the answer to though: Suppose I subscribe, say, to the voiptalk service. Suppose I have a friend who uses Skype, and suppose their Skype is active at a particular time. Could I then connect to their Skype phone from my voiptalk phone? With thanks, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@manchester.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 27-Jun-07 Time: 20:11:53 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
(Ted Harding) <ted.harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> wrote:
Could I then connect to their Skype phone from my voiptalk phone?
Not if all they have is a skype: address (I don't know if Skype phones have phone numbers or sip: or iax: addresses). Skype is another proprietary system, with the added drawbacks of occasional spyware[1], power management screwups[2] and chance of making users with public IP addresses into trunk switches ("Supernodes")[3]. There have also been network worms, but I'm not sure whether they worry Linux-based users. Anyway, I suggest avoiding Skype and making people aware of its dangers. 1. http://www.pagetable.com/?p=27 2. http://blog.drinsama.de/erich/en/2007061401-power-waster-skype.html 3. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&arti... Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op. Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
On 27-Jun-07 19:31:50, MJ Ray wrote:
(Ted Harding) <ted.harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> wrote:
Could I then connect to their Skype phone from my voiptalk phone?
Not if all they have is a skype: address (I don't know if Skype phones have phone numbers or sip: or iax: addresses).
I guess that's what I wanted to know. Thanks!
Skype is another proprietary system, with the added drawbacks of occasional spyware[1], power management screwups[2] and chance of making users with public IP addresses into trunk switches ("Supernodes")[3]. There have also been network worms, but I'm not sure whether they worry Linux-based users. Anyway, I suggest avoiding Skype and making people aware of its dangers.
1. http://www.pagetable.com/?p=27 2. http://blog.drinsama.de/erich/en/2007061401-power-waster-skype.html 3. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic& articleId=9012239
Well, that's not relevant to me (since I don't use Skype and don't intend to); and there's nothing I can do about their use of Skype! (They're in New Zealand and use Skype for talking with their family back here; I'm pretty sure that they just use the internet address and not any number, since the family back here use Skype too). It's just that I wondered if a VoIP service could connect to them so that I could have a chat too! Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <ted.harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 27-Jun-07 Time: 20:44:56 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
Just a quick general suggestion ... voipuser.org is great for testing your setup before you start paying out for the service. It's completely free and offers you a number of free personal numbers so you can break into and out of the PSTN and ensure your kit is up and running ... I'd highly recommended them ... Peter.
Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk> wrote:
Aren't bad. I'd rather use IAX than SIP though, so I'd recommend: http://www.voiptalk.co.uk/
voiptalk works with SIP too, but I think you pay extra for voicemail. I heard good things about aql.com but that doesn't work with linphone. Why IAX not SIP, in practical terms? What free software phones (not switchboards) have people actually got working with IAX? Any non-Gnome/KDE ones? IAX is still UDP, so still fun with firewalls, and the comparisons I've seen seemed to concentrate on low-level technical differences of IAX and RTP, rather than the benefits of IAX and I'm not smart enough with this to convert the technicalities into features. Thanks for any info, -- MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op. Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 02:11:25PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk> wrote:
Aren't bad. I'd rather use IAX than SIP though, so I'd recommend: http://www.voiptalk.co.uk/
voiptalk works with SIP too, but I think you pay extra for voicemail. I heard good things about aql.com but that doesn't work with linphone.
Why IAX not SIP, in practical terms? What free software phones (not switchboards) have people actually got working with IAX? Any non-Gnome/KDE ones?
IAX is *much* easier for firewall config - it's a single port rather than a block of hundreds of random ports - so you don't need the sip tracking module only available in recent kernels - it's also good as a trunking protocol, dropping an aterisk box at the end behind a firewall is simple, and then you can do sip from the asterisk box. As far as clients go, iaxComm is the only one I really used (I've got a bunch of SIP handsets and one IAX2 handset that I was using in combination with Asterisk so all hardware for most testing).
IAX is still UDP, so still fun with firewalls, and the comparisons I've seen seemed to concentrate on low-level technical differences of IAX and RTP, rather than the benefits of IAX and I'm not smart enough with this to convert the technicalities into features.
UDP isn't any different to TCP as far as firewall config is concerned - UDP that then says "yeah - you'll be wanting to connect on this 'ere bunch o' ports" is where the problems start - IAX doesn't suffer that. Cheers, -- Brett Parker
Brett Parker <iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 02:11:25PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Why IAX not SIP, in practical terms? What free software phones (not switchboards) have people actually got working with IAX? Any non-Gnome/KDE ones?
IAX is *much* easier for firewall config - it's a single port rather than a block of hundreds of random ports [...]
I had to open two ports per phone - inbound SIP and inbound RTP (most non-broken services are happy with SIP and RTP on any port) - and tell the client to use those ports. Why use a block of hundreds?
[...] - it's also good as a trunking protocol [...]
I think I can see that, but I've yet to install a switchboard here (I must try flashing a router with OpenWRT now I've learnt a bit more about one router and have a few more candidates around). So other than the NAT which I've already solved, would IAX add much?
As far as clients go, iaxComm is the only one I really used [...]
Thanks. I'll take a look at it when I'm next upgrading. Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist@digimatic.co.uk> wrote: [...]
As for softphones...just don't do it..not as a primary phone anyway, buy a proper SIP desk or DECT phone. On both Linux and Windows I have had very variable experiences with practically every softphone I tried. [...]
Myself and one other are working OK with softphones, but some software is better than others. What's "a proper SIP desk" to you? DECT phones interfere with stuff. If you put them too near your satellite feed cable, you can kiss Sat.1 and DSF goodbye. I won't have one in the house any more! Regards, -- MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op. Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
I have heard variable things about Vonage and I am sure there was some question about legal issues surrounding their service. As for softphones...just don't do it..not as a primary phone anyway, buy a proper SIP desk or DECT phone. On both Linux and Windows I have had very variable experiences with practically every softphone I tried. I keep one on my (windows) laptop for emergency use if I am away from either my house or the office (where there are Aastra hardware phones available) For desk (wired) phones I highly recommend Aastra and suggest you order them from Digium.co.uk the Aastra phones (I only have the cheapest ones) are extremely well built, have a simple control layout and an excellent speakerphone. For DECT I have used SIP enabled Siemens Gigasets but if you are looking at asterisk they don't have all the facilities like quick transfer, swap etc that you might want to get the best out of the asterisk box SIP and NAT is a total pain as Brett has suggested. I have managed to get a SIP phone at home connected to our office Asterisk server when both are behind NAT's but I suspect if I wanted more than one phone at a particular destination I would have to put the Asterisk box in a DMZ. On a related note, I have a BT Voyager 220V ADSL/VOIP router here that is surplus to requirements, it needs a 12VDC wall wart capable of 1.2A and currently it is locked down to BT services only (for both the ADSL and SIP services) but I also have a copy of some hacked firmware that is supposed to remove these restrictions (untested as I have no need for it now)..Free to anyone who can be bothered to pick it up or is attending the next Ipswich meet
Thanks for the all the valuable advice! I've just signed up for an account with sipgate and I now have an 0845 number for my business :) I'm thinking of buying the Grandstream BT-101 from them for £45 (http://www.sipgate.co.uk/voipshop/grandstream/grandstream_bt-101) but until the expenses claim goes through I'll be playing with softphones. Wish me luck configuring my router... Cheers Ben -- Ben Francis http://tola.me.uk
On Thu, 2007-06-28 at 10:36 +0100, Ben Francis wrote:
I'm thinking of buying the Grandstream BT-101 from them for £45 (http://www.sipgate.co.uk/voipshop/grandstream/grandstream_bt-101) but until the expenses claim goes through I'll be playing with softphones.
Having tried both and despite it being circa £20 more I would still recommend the Aastra. The Grandstream has the build quality of a £10-£15 PSTN phone, the Aastra is at the same level as a good PABX phone system phone. Also the grandstream budgettone 101 I had as a trial (it may have been faulty) had this bizarre effect in that there is no feedback from the mic to the earpiece (as nearly all phones have..it is called sidetone) and lack of this makes you feel deaf in one ear when you are speaking. Oh and it crashed a few times, and I have yet to see an Aastra do that On a slight tangent the lack of sidetone on most Mobiles is I believe the reason that so many people shout when using them.
participants (7)
-
Adam Bower -
Ben Francis -
Brett Parker -
MJ Ray -
samwise -
ted.harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk -
Wayne Stallwood