I sent a document to someone recently and their machine kept crashing when they tried to put changes into it. (They use MS.) I've not had this problem before and I'm wondering exactly how compatible Open Office and Word are. What's your experience?
Bev.
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 05:31:34PM +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
I sent a document to someone recently and their machine kept crashing when they tried to put changes into it. (They use MS.) I've not had this problem before and I'm wondering exactly how compatible Open Office and Word are. What's your experience?
My experience is that MS products crash as soon as you look at them, back in the NT4 days, whilst at Uni, I used to be able to blue screen the workstations within abou 15 minutes of my average usage (which at that time involved having a few windows open for coding, a browser window for JDK documentation, putty connected to a machine in the student union and occasionally a VNC session to my person box hosted on campus)... Now I don't find it *quite* so easy to crash Windows, but that might just be because I've come to expect that I can't run much at the same time!
Now, the obvious question is, why don't you just get the other party to install OpenOffice, it's Free after all... and then you can just exchange documents with each other nicely.
Otherwise, you'll hit some incompatibilities whatever happens, and occasionally some will crash word... (I've had it the other way round too, word documents crashing open office... but then I shift to abiword, or wv - I generally only want the content anyways - why people can't learn ReST, docbook, markdown or similar I'll never know - it makes life so much *easier* - none of the problems of a large memory hungry "word processor").
*Anyways* - that was a bit off topic and random! The basic answer is, yes, there reasonably compatible, but you will hit problems every now and again.
Thanks,
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 06:30:08PM +0100, Brett Parker wrote:
Otherwise, you'll hit some incompatibilities whatever happens, and occasionally some will crash word... (I've had it the other way round too, word documents crashing open office... but then I shift to abiword,
Worst of all I've had word documents that were created and edited in word that would crash word.... Opening them in openoffice (actually, back then it could have been staroffice) and then saving them again "fixed" them so that Word would open them again :S
I hate all office software, It sucks, all of it.
Adam
Hi
On 07/10/2007, Bev Nicolson bnicolson@operamail.com wrote:
I sent a document to someone recently and their machine kept crashing when they tried to put changes into it. (They use MS.) I've not had this problem before and I'm wondering exactly how compatible Open Office and Word are. What's your experience?
I seem to remember writing my CV in OpenOffice and then exporting it as a Word 97/2000 document so that agencies can open them, and some of them had problems with WordXP (i think) crashing as soon as they opened my document. Word 2003 or 2000 (or whatever was the earlier version) did not crash.
So it was either an openoffice convert issue, or Word XP being silly (deliberate or bug).
Srdjan
Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
Hi
On 07/10/2007, Bev Nicolson bnicolson@operamail.com wrote:
I sent a document to someone recently and their machine kept crashing when they tried to put changes into it. (They use MS.) I've not had this problem before and I'm wondering exactly how compatible Open Office and Word are. What's your experience?
I seem to remember writing my CV in OpenOffice and then exporting it as a Word 97/2000 document so that agencies can open them, and some of them had problems with WordXP (i think) crashing as soon as they opened my document. Word 2003 or 2000 (or whatever was the earlier version) did not crash.
For something like a CV, probably better to export as PDF. 99% of people won't have a problem opening it but Bev's problem comes from editing so it doesn't really apply.
The only thing I can think of is if the document had a lot of pictures or graphs or other such things which might be handled a lot differently in OOo than MS Word. OpenOffice doesn't have a problem converting purely plain text to MS formats, when saving important work to carry on with at university, I'll either, use OpenOffice Portable from my USB stick or save it is as many formats as possible and cross fingers. Heh..
-Si
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 05:27:20PM +0100, Simon Elliott wrote:
For something like a CV, probably better to export as PDF. 99% of people won't have a problem opening it but Bev's problem comes from editing so it doesn't really apply.
Sometimes agencies will moan if you do that as it makes it harder for them to edit the document.... many of them have trouble with C&P too!
Adam
On 08/10/2007, Adam Bower adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 05:27:20PM +0100, Simon Elliott wrote:
For something like a CV, probably better to export as PDF. 99% of people won't have a problem opening it but Bev's problem comes from editing so it doesn't really apply.
Sometimes agencies will moan if you do that as it makes it harder for them to edit the document.... many of them have trouble with C&P too!
Adam
For greatest compatibility, I would suggest that RTF might be a good compromise for a CV. It's a fairly simple format, in comparison, and so should be fairly readable in MS Word & WordPad, OOo Writer and even the online word processors like Google Docs & Spreadsheets. It also retains the ability for the recipient to edit the document.
Obviously, it's less appropriate for more complex documents, but I think it's well suited for distributing a resume that you don't want anyone to have difficulty opening ...
Peter.
samwise wrote:
For greatest compatibility, I would suggest that RTF might be a good compromise for a CV. It's a fairly simple format, [...]
Is that the RTF used by Wordpad, the RFT used by Word, or the RTF used by Outlook?
I had to do some (trivial) work with RTF once, and downloaded the spec and printed it out without looking at the size of the file (fool!). After the printer had worked its way through a ream of paper, I realised my mistake...
On 09/10/2007, Mark Rogers mark@quarella.co.uk wrote:
samwise wrote:
For greatest compatibility, I would suggest that RTF might be a good compromise for a CV. It's a fairly simple format, [...]
Is that the RTF used by Wordpad, the RFT used by Word, or the RTF used by Outlook?
I had to do some (trivial) work with RTF once, and downloaded the spec and printed it out without looking at the size of the file (fool!). After the printer had worked its way through a ream of paper, I realised my mistake...
Ahh, now noone mentioned printing as a requirement. ;)
Another alternative is basic HTML, but that is also subject to mis-interpretation, not to mention infection. That said - yes, it's a compromise. In this day and age I doubt there is a perfect solution - even a text file has different line breaks across *nix, Macs and Windows ... !
I'm sure there are more tightly specified formats but they would probably require the installation of a reader application, which is out of the comfort zone for the HR secretary who's been given an order to reduce the candidates by 20% ... ;)
Peter.
samwise wrote:
I had to do some (trivial) work with RTF once, and downloaded the spec and printed it out without looking at the size of the file (fool!). After the printer had worked its way through a ream of paper, I realised my mistake...
Ahh, now noone mentioned printing as a requirement. ;)
Sorry, my point was that the spec was far bigger than I expected it to be; the ream of paper wasn't because the spec was badly interpreted due to the RTF formwat it was in (it might not even have been in an RTF format itself for all I can remember), but that the spec is huge!
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 07:33:05PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 05:27:20PM +0100, Simon Elliott wrote:
For something like a CV, probably better to export as PDF. 99% of people won't have a problem opening it but Bev's problem comes from editing so it doesn't really apply.
Sometimes agencies will moan if you do that as it makes it harder for them to edit the document.... many of them have trouble with C&P too!
I encountered an agency who claimed that their document management system couldn't handle searching PDFs. I refrained from pointing out that an IT recruitment agency should really be able to deal with such a common format and ended up using latex2rtf to convert my CV to something they could handle. Later it turned out that they had indeed removed my contact details and referees from the copy of the CV handed out to potential employers.
J.
On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 11:39:42AM +0100, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
I encountered an agency who claimed that their document management system couldn't handle searching PDFs. I refrained from pointing out that an IT recruitment agency should really be able to deal with such a common format and ended up using latex2rtf to convert my CV to something
Aye, "should" is a word I have found I have used lots in relation to agencies. I don't think I've ever found a *good* job as the result of an agency being involved. All my good jobs I have applied for as someone I know has suggested I apply, or that I got the details and applied directly or someone offered me a job without me even asking them for one. All the jobs that have turned out to not be as described at any point along the way have been agencies, same with my worst interviews too, has anyone had any luck with agencies for getting the good jobs?
they could handle. Later it turned out that they had indeed removed my contact details and referees from the copy of the CV handed out to potential employers.
Yeah, I've found they all do that. The worst one was the dodgy ****s who put me forward for a job and managed to magic a few more years experience onto my cv as they were having difficulty in filling the position at the time. I found out about this during the interview when I was asked about said things.
Adam
On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 06:36:28PM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 11:39:42AM +0100, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
I encountered an agency who claimed that their document management system couldn't handle searching PDFs. I refrained from pointing out that an IT recruitment agency should really be able to deal with such a common format and ended up using latex2rtf to convert my CV to something
Aye, "should" is a word I have found I have used lots in relation to agencies. I don't think I've ever found a *good* job as the result of an agency being involved. All my good jobs I have applied for as someone I know has suggested I apply, or that I got the details and applied directly or someone offered me a job without me even asking them for one. All the jobs that have turned out to not be as described at any point along the way have been agencies, same with my worst interviews too, has anyone had any luck with agencies for getting the good jobs?
My new job is a result of an agency finding me on Monster and putting me forward for a position. Colour me surprised.
J.
** Adam Bower adam@thebowery.co.uk [2007-10-09 18:38]:
On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 11:39:42AM +0100, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
I encountered an agency who claimed that their document management system couldn't handle searching PDFs. I refrained from pointing out that an IT recruitment agency should really be able to deal with such a common format and ended up using latex2rtf to convert my CV to something
Aye, "should" is a word I have found I have used lots in relation to agencies. I don't think I've ever found a *good* job as the result of an agency being involved. All my good jobs I have applied for as someone I know has suggested I apply, or that I got the details and applied directly or someone offered me a job without me even asking them for one. All the jobs that have turned out to not be as described at any point along the way have been agencies, same with my worst interviews too, has anyone had any luck with agencies for getting the good jobs?
I still remember one interview, which I think was my first through an agency. When I got there I found the interview was for a completely different job to the one I had been told about. After chatting with the interviewer for a while I was asked whether I thought I could do the job, to which I replied that I didn't know, but would give it a damn good go if they wanted to give it to me - which they did! I guess that was easier since it was a short term contract, but it was extended. I did try to get taken on full time when they decided to take somebody on, but that didn't work out. I think that was for the best though as nobody seemed to work together and there was an expectation that I should somehow know what needed doing with no training or overall view of what was going on in the department. They got what they deserved though as the person that got the job was a total 'jobsworth' with no initiative at all and a major work avoidance attitude - to sum him up, he had heard that 50mph was the most economic speed to drive at, so drove at that speed everywhere - from 30mph limits to motorways!
they could handle. Later it turned out that they had indeed removed my contact details and referees from the copy of the CV handed out to potential employers.
Yeah, I've found they all do that. The worst one was the dodgy ****s who put me forward for a job and managed to magic a few more years experience onto my cv as they were having difficulty in filling the position at the time. I found out about this during the interview when I was asked about said things.
I've generally found with agencies and jobs advertised on job sites that they rarely if ever exist. When I've emailed in copies of my CV I've had no reply, and when I've phoned the person is never there and never returns your phone call. Then, a year or so later they contact you about a job totally unsuited to your qualifications.
All that said, I have met one excellent agency person. He was very clued up, advised on interview technique, gave you as much info on the job as he could and wanted follow up on how the interview went as soon as it was over so he could follow up with the potential employer. He set up on his own in the end, but I lost touch and don't think he is still trading. Never got me a job, but did get me some of my best interviews - i.e. those that matched ones I'd applied for direct in terms of job description and how close I came to getting them. ** end quote [Adam Bower]
** Simon Elliott alug@sionide.net [2007-10-08 19:12]:
Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
On 07/10/2007, Bev Nicolson bnicolson@operamail.com wrote:
I sent a document to someone recently and their machine kept crashing when they tried to put changes into it. (They use MS.) I've not had this problem before and I'm wondering exactly how compatible Open Office and Word are. What's your experience?
I seem to remember writing my CV in OpenOffice and then exporting it as a Word 97/2000 document so that agencies can open them, and some of them had problems with WordXP (i think) crashing as soon as they opened my document. Word 2003 or 2000 (or whatever was the earlier version) did not crash.
For something like a CV, probably better to export as PDF. 99% of people won't have a problem opening it but Bev's problem comes from editing so it doesn't really apply.
** end quote [Simon Elliott]
I've generally found when dealing with agencies that they will not accept CVs in any format other than Word .doc (although probably the newer Word formats now - it has been a while!). They've usually used the excuse that they cannot read PDFs and even claimed not to have heard of Adobe or Acrobat/PDFs - although given the quality if staff I've dealt with at agencies in the past I can, actually, quite believe that!
On 10/10/2007, Paul Tansom paul@aptanet.com wrote:
I've generally found when dealing with agencies that they will not accept CVs in any format other than Word .doc (although probably the newer Word formats now - it has been a while!). They've usually used the excuse that they cannot read PDFs and even claimed not to have heard of Adobe or Acrobat/PDFs - although given the quality if staff I've dealt with at agencies in the past I can, actually, quite believe that!
I do try to keep my CV in PDF wherever possible because I don't want the recruitment agencies to start buggering about with my CV; and I have it in a nice format which is easy to read. In the past when I've been to job interviews and seen the copy of the CV that they have - it's in a format that I just don't recognise.
But to echo Adam Bower's statement on recruitment and successful employment - I too have yet to actually gain a place through them. In fact, I'm so sick to death of recruitment agencies I'm blacklisting entire domains to stop the feckers from emailing me about pointless jobs (the most recent was for a 3D modeller - I wouldn't know how to model something in Maya if my life depended on it - I can support Maya as an application, but not to produce 3D models!).
As it is I'm due to have an interview at Red Hat at some point, but it seems that the person responsible from the recruitment agency has vanished into thin air. I was supposed to have an interview at SourceFire too, but the recruitment agent got me so pissed off with the way the whole thing was handled - I didn't turn up. That's not fair on SourceFire of course, but at the same time it serves them right for dealing with an arse of a recruitment agency.
These days I'm trying for companies I *want* and would be *eager* to work for - and not some random crapfest that recruiters think you want to apply for.
Regards,
Martyn
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Adam Bower -
Bev Nicolson -
Brett Parker -
Jonathan McDowell -
Mark Rogers -
Martyn Drake -
Paul Tansom -
samwise -
Simon Elliott -
Srdjan Todorovic