Hello ALUG, Just before we all left last night, I remembered that a little while ago on IRC mention had been made of a possible trip to Bletchley Park. Now that the weather has taken a turn for the better, I wonder if anyone still thinks this may be fun? There's a fairly informative website at: http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/ They do group weekend visits between 10:30 and 17:00 for 8.00 GBP per head for 20+ people and allow (possibly require) booking. Maps and various route planning info: http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/findus.rhtm For those of us in Norwich, the train journey is not all that good: AFAICT you need to go through London (Liverpool St -> Euston) and it takes about 3:30 hours. By road it will probably take about 3 hours (A11, through Thetford, Cambridge, A428 through Bedford to Milton Keynes). Any thoughts? Cheers, Richard -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis Sonic Arts Research Archive http://www.sara.uea.ac.uk/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Richard Lewis <richardlewis@fastmail.co.uk>
For those of us in Norwich, the train journey is not all that good: AFAICT you need to go through London (Liverpool St -> Euston) and it takes about 3:30 hours. By road it will probably take about 3 hours (A11, through Thetford, Cambridge, A428 through Bedford to Milton Keynes).
Do *NOT* go *through* Bedford, especially if the rugby is on. Use A11 -> A14 -> A428 -> A421 -> H8 Standing Way, then enter Bletchley along Buckingham Road. Bletchley Park is on the left just before the railway bridges. I'm pretty sure Milton Keynes is a stop on the Cambridge-Oxford megabus.com and city buses to Bletchley used to be easy and cheap. If I'm going, I could car-share from the fens instead. Sounds fun, by the way. Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask
On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 09:42 +0100, Richard Lewis wrote:
Hello ALUG,
Just before we all left last night, I remembered that a little while ago on IRC mention had been made of a possible trip to Bletchley Park. Now that the weather has taken a turn for the better, I wonder if anyone still thinks this may be fun?
Apologies for not replying to this sooner, I have been broadband-less since Friday when an attempt was made to upgrade my line to MaxDSL. Back running at the old speed but at least it works ! For Bletchley park I was originally thinking of sometime in July...I am away quite a bit in June. That said if there are others that want to go in June then that's fine as I have only just recently been (hence my original post about an ALUG visit)
On 16-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 09:42 +0100, Richard Lewis wrote:
Hello ALUG,
Just before we all left last night, I remembered that a little while ago on IRC mention had been made of a possible trip to Bletchley Park. Now that the weather has taken a turn for the better, I wonder if anyone still thinks this may be fun?
While the underlying trend is upwards, weatherwise, I wouldn't rely on the facts of Tuesday or Wednesday to be predictive of Sunday even of this week, let alone in June/July!. Seriously, though, agreed that it would be fun.
Apologies for not replying to this sooner, I have been broadband-less since Friday when an attempt was made to upgrade my line to MaxDSL.
Back running at the old speed but at least it works !
For Bletchley park I was originally thinking of sometime in July...I am away quite a bit in June.
That said if there are others that want to go in June then that's fine as I have only just recently been (hence my original post about an ALUG visit)
I'm easy about when -- May, June or July -- and could arrange to give a lift from the Ely/King's Lynn/St Ives/Huntingdon axis. But the proviso is that it's a Sunday with nothing else happening -- and that's only slightly more predictable than the weather at the moment! Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 07:36:57 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On 16-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
[...] Apologies for not replying to this sooner, I have been broadband-less since Friday when an attempt was made to upgrade my line to MaxDSL.
Back running at the old speed but at least it works !
That's the most drastic experience of MaxDSL I've heard of as yet. Been on it myself since the 1st week of April, with all sorts of issues -- but nothing comparable to being knocked out altogether for the best part of a week! Any more gory details, Wayne? Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 07:43:50 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 07:43:53AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
On 16-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
[...] Apologies for not replying to this sooner, I have been broadband-less since Friday when an attempt was made to upgrade my line to MaxDSL.
Back running at the old speed but at least it works !
That's the most drastic experience of MaxDSL I've heard of as yet. Been on it myself since the 1st week of April, with all sorts of issues -- but nothing comparable to being knocked out altogether for the best part of a week!
Any more gory details, Wayne?
My experience with UKFSN/EntaNet has been entirely positive, I was amazed to see my link was running at 6Mb/s a few weeks ago, I hadn't even noticed any hiccoughs while it changed and I was most impressed to get such a high speed as I'm well out in the sticks. The BT 'can I get ADSL' had always advised a maximum of 1Mb/s before 'Max'. -- Chris Green (chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net)
On 17-May-06 chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 07:43:53AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
On 16-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
[...] Apologies for not replying to this sooner, I have been broadband-less since Friday when an attempt was made to upgrade my line to MaxDSL.
Back running at the old speed but at least it works !
That's the most drastic experience of MaxDSL I've heard of as yet. Been on it myself since the 1st week of April, with all sorts of issues -- but nothing comparable to being knocked out altogether for the best part of a week!
Any more gory details, Wayne?
My experience with UKFSN/EntaNet has been entirely positive, I was amazed to see my link was running at 6Mb/s a few weeks ago, I hadn't even noticed any hiccoughs while it changed and I was most impressed to get such a high speed as I'm well out in the sticks. The BT 'can I get ADSL' had always advised a maximum of 1Mb/s before 'Max'.
-- Chris Green (chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net)
That's interesting, Chris! (Me way out in the sticks too). I'd been on ADSL since October with Zen, at a conservative 512Kbits/sec (might have upgraded to 1M later if it looked stable long-term), then along came MaxDSL in April. For the first 3 weeks at least, there were frequent re-syncs (with accompanying disconnections of any remote links), gradually settling down to mostly in the evenings. Sync speeds varying between 3000 and 5500 Kbits/sec (round figures). Finally, after some 5 weeks, it got more stable and now, some 7 weeks later, I'm down to 2-3 re-syncs per day in the range 3800-4300. I'm not that fussy about speed -- 3Mbits/sec is plenty for me -- but I'm fussy about reliability of connection, and ideally I want no re-syncs at all! Mind you, this recent stability is due to the latency switching from "Fast" to "Interleaved" about a week ago. Which is your exchange, and how far are you from it? What sort of Local SNR Margin are you getting? (mine was at best 6.5, usually 5-6, sometimes down to 3-4, on "Fast"; now usually 9.0-10.5 on "Interleaved"). I do wonder whether ISP can be a factor in people's different experiences. Theoretically it shouldn't be, I suppose; but there are indications out there that it may be. And the signs are (Zen Forum) that Zen are either a bit bewildered themselves by what's happening on MaxDSL, or are being tight-lipped for their own reasons. Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 09:18:42 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 09:18:45AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Which is your exchange, and how far are you from it?
I'm on Waldringfield, 01473 736xxx. We have two lines, strangely enough the line on which we *don't* currently have ADSL always reported a maximum of 2Mb/s as opposed to the one where we do have ADSL reporting 1Mb/s maximum. We couldn't originally use the better line for ADSL because that was ISDN though it's now back to an ordinary POTS line. I'm not sure of distance though 5.5km sticks in my mind for some reason.
What sort of Local SNR Margin are you getting? (mine was at best 6.5, usually 5-6, sometimes down to 3-4, on "Fast"; now usually 9.0-10.5 on "Interleaved").
I have it written on the whiteboard above my desk, I'll tell you when I get home (if I remember). -- Chris Green (chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net)
On 17-May-06 chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 09:18:45AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Which is your exchange, and how far are you from it?
I'm on Waldringfield, 01473 736xxx.
And me on Brandon Creek (01353 676 ***). Take a magnifying glass about 1/3 way from Littleport to Downham Market. Along with Nordelph, the final remaining exchange in Norfolk to get ADSL-enabled last October.
I'm not sure of distance though 5.5km sticks in my mind for some reason.
4.9km, me, according to BT. I can see where you are, now. At 5.5km from that, you are remote!
What sort of Local SNR Margin are you getting? (mine was at best 6.5, usually 5-6, sometimes down to 3-4, on "Fast"; now usually 9.0-10.5 on "Interleaved").
I have it written on the whiteboard above my desk, I'll tell you when I get home (if I remember).
Interesting to compare notes. In theory, I shuld be able to do slightly better than you, though of course a lot depends on the quality of the physical line, and yours may be more recent than mine or in better shape. Cheers, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 09:46:36 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 03:28:39AM -0500, chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 09:18:45AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Which is your exchange, and how far are you from it?
I'm on Waldringfield, 01473 736xxx. We have two lines, strangely enough the line on which we *don't* currently have ADSL always reported a maximum of 2Mb/s as opposed to the one where we do have ADSL reporting 1Mb/s maximum. We couldn't originally use the better line for ADSL because that was ISDN though it's now back to an ordinary POTS line.
I'm not sure of distance though 5.5km sticks in my mind for some reason.
Well my memory was totally wrong, the ADSL checker reports:- Standard ADSL RAG results: [BT ADSL Code: AEGEGEC] You cannot receive 2Mbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: AEGEGEC] You may be able to receive 1Mbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: AEGEGEC] You can receive 512Kbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: AEGEGEC] You can receive 256Kbps ADSL You are approximately 2.39km from the exchange (straight line distance). On the other line (dropwire comes from the same post outside) I get:- Standard ADSL RAG results: [BT ADSL Code: GEGEGEZ] You can receive 2Mbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: GEGEGEZ] You can receive 1Mbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: GEGEGEZ] You can receive 512Kbps ADSL [BT ADSL Code: GEGEGEZ] You can receive 256Kbps ADSL You are approximately 2.39km from the exchange (straight line distance). -- Chris Green (chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net)
On 17-May-06 chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
[...] You are approximately 2.39km from the exchange (straight line distance).
Well, I'm 2.90km from the exchange (straight line distance), but the distance along the wire is 4.9 (as BT once told me). Especially in sparsely populated rural areas, the line can wander all over the place from subscriber to subscriber. For example, mine hugs the river bank for 1.5km, serving about a dozen houses, then breaks away over about 2.5km to a couple of farmhouses, then back over about 1km to the river again (2.9km upriver, but total about 5km). So your memory may be OK! <note Must ask Wayne about his memory /note> Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 10:57:00 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 10:57:05AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
On 17-May-06 chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
[...] You are approximately 2.39km from the exchange (straight line distance).
Well, I'm 2.90km from the exchange (straight line distance), but the distance along the wire is 4.9 (as BT once told me).
Yes, I realised this, but I'm still confused as to where I got the 5.5km from.
Especially in sparsely populated rural areas, the line can wander all over the place from subscriber to subscriber.
-- Chris Green (chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net)
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:05:24AM -0500, chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 10:57:05AM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
On 17-May-06 chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
[...] You are approximately 2.39km from the exchange (straight line distance).
Well, I'm 2.90km from the exchange (straight line distance), but the distance along the wire is 4.9 (as BT once told me). Yes, I realised this, but I'm still confused as to where I got the 5.5km from.
I believe it's the old (pre RADSL) figure for the maximum distance you could be from the exchange and still get ADSL. I think it's up to at least 8km these days. J. -- Black Cat Networks Ltd. - UK Domain, Web and Email hosting. What do you mean NO SAVING THROW? Email: sales@blackcatnetworks.co.uk Web: http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/
just a warning to stay away from evolution dsl, their supposedly 8mb no throttling service sureptiously start traffic shaping and knocking everyone down to about 15k a sec. it sucks and i am off to the land of nildram nevedr to return.
i was with pipex for two years and never had a hour of down time, so i would return directly to them rather than via nildram if they didnt persist with 12 month contracts. On 5/17/06, Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 03:21:18PM +0100, Ricky Bruce wrote:
i am off to the land of nildram nevedr to return.
You mean Pipex, don't you? ;)
J.
-- Jealousy strikes again.
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On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 07:43 +0100, Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk wrote:
That's the most drastic experience of MaxDSL I've heard of as yet. Been on it myself since the 1st week of April, with all sorts of issues -- but nothing comparable to being knocked out altogether for the best part of a week!
Any more gory details, Wayne?
Yes a few. At the time my link failed (3PM on Friday) our office went down as well (which is with a different ISP) We quickly found out that almost every client (across different ISP's) we have on EABSE had lost connection. We responded by moving to our emergency office suite (The Dog and Partridge) where there is wireless internet (not provided by ADSL) and more importantly an almost unlimited supply of refreshing drinks (it's important to keep your energy levels up in a crisis) Our office and all but 2 clients came back late Friday (but by then we'd had too many "refreshing drinks" to care) I discovered Saturday morning that most of the clients that had come back were now ADSL syncing at MaxDSL rates. One of the two remaining broken clients came back first thing Monday (again now syncing at MaxDSL) The two connections on Plusnet (one client and myself) were broken until I got home last night, and they have come back at 2Mb/s. In the meantime I have been told that a BT engineer is visiting to look at a line fault near my house. It's had to get any sense out of BT when you are talking through PlusNet Support (some would argue that it's hard to get any sense out of BT period) but the general theory is that there is a fault on my line that may have prevented MaxDSL from working. My theory is that something horrible happened during the MaxDSL upgrade (dead ports on the DSLAM or something) and BT are on a wild goose chase looking at the local line for a fault that I am sure is at the exchange. We will see when the BT bod plugs in his TDR on Thursday.
On 17-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 07:43 +0100, Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk wrote:
That's the most drastic experience of MaxDSL I've heard of as yet. Been on it myself since the 1st week of April, with all sorts of issues -- but nothing comparable to being knocked out altogether for the best part of a week!
Any more gory details, Wayne?
Yes a few.
At the time my link failed (3PM on Friday) our office went down as well (which is with a different ISP) We quickly found out that almost every client (across different ISP's) we have on EABSE had lost connection.
We responded by moving to our emergency office suite (The Dog and Partridge) where there is wireless internet (not provided by ADSL) and more importantly an almost unlimited supply of refreshing drinks (it's important to keep your energy levels up in a crisis)
Our office and all but 2 clients came back late Friday (but by then we'd had too many "refreshing drinks" to care)
I discovered Saturday morning that most of the clients that had come back were now ADSL syncing at MaxDSL rates. One of the two remaining broken clients came back first thing Monday (again now syncing at MaxDSL) The two connections on Plusnet (one client and myself) were broken until I got home last night, and they have come back at 2Mb/s.
In the meantime I have been told that a BT engineer is visiting to look at a line fault near my house. It's had to get any sense out of BT when you are talking through PlusNet Support (some would argue that it's hard to get any sense out of BT period) but the general theory is that there is a fault on my line that may have prevented MaxDSL from working. My theory is that something horrible happened during the MaxDSL upgrade (dead ports on the DSLAM or something) and BT are on a wild goose chase looking at the local line for a fault that I am sure is at the exchange.
We will see when the BT bod plugs in his TDR on Thursday.
Wow! That's quite a saga! And what sink rate were you getting at the Dog & Partridge? (Msips/sec) Cheers, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 10:02:51 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 10:02 +0100, Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk wrote:
And what sink rate were you getting at the Dog & Partridge? (Msips/sec)
:-) Ted, when looking at a service like this you have to consider average throughput of a sustained transfer. Taking spot measurements is meaningless because Bar contention issues will affect your average but may be missed by taking spot measurements, most providers only have a couple of "pipes" for each product so at peak times contention levels can be quite high. Of course you can solve this with a predictive pint cache.
On 17-May-06 Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 10:02 +0100, Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk wrote:
And what sink rate were you getting at the Dog & Partridge? (Msips/sec)
:-)
Ted, when looking at a service like this you have to consider average throughput of a sustained transfer. Taking spot measurements is meaningless because Bar contention issues will affect your average but may be missed by taking spot measurements, most providers only have a couple of "pipes" for each product so at peak times contention levels can be quite high.
Of course you can solve this with a predictive pint cache.
:-) :-) :-) !!! ... or by staggering access (but then you'd be falling over a lot) -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 17-May-06 Time: 11:44:42 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
dont know if this is a help but im pretty sure theres also a bus that runs from norwich to cambridge, the x 4 i think.
participants (7)
-
chrisisbd＠leary.csoft.net -
Jonathan McDowell -
MJ Ray -
Richard Lewis -
Ricky Bruce -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk -
Wayne Stallwood