Andrew Savory wrote:
Sorry, but I don't agree. Written English is a heck of a lot harder to master than programming. Most programming languages have a right and a wrong way: ie, black and white, works or doesn't. They have a very limited syntax and often there are many easily accessible books written on how to program in a given language. English, on the other hand, has too many shades of grey to make it easy to master. Syntax, grammatical rules, spelling: all these things change based not just on what country you're in but often depending on the region of a country. In English, it's very difficult to pin down 'write' and wrong, once you get beyond the basics of spelling and grammar. It becomes much more subjective and more difficult to define.
I agree. Teaching a small child to read and write brings it home just how erratic the english language can be. I think a few hundred years ago it may have made more sense, when "when" was spoken aloud with the "h" being audible, and the "k" in "knee" or "knight" also was heard. But look at bough, cough, through. As a small child, language is learnt first by ear then by reading. So any input at that age is more likely to result in proper spelling and grammer if the parents of a small child talk to them properly, and later if they are encouraged to read the written word.
Hmmm... again, I think it's easy to blame the education system and "trendy methods" for falling standards, but I think a portion of the blame should also be directed at the parents and society. TV doesn't encourage reading and writing; the fast food disposable lifestyles we live also prohibit attention to detail and focus on results over accuracy.
Well, that one starts off a whole new debate on responsibility - who is responsible in this society and for what. Can you point a finger at a parent who sits their kid in front of the telly stuffing hamburgers when it is the way they were brought up themselves? At what point does someone have to face the fact that each person is ultimately responsible for themselves? (I don't know what I think the answer to this one is, it all makes me a bit confused).
Laurie Brown wrote:
I've learnt that my views on grammar and written English differ a little from most other people's...
Oh yes, how is that? Jenny
--- Jenny_Hopkins@toby-churchill.com wrote:
Andrew Savory wrote:
Sorry, but I don't agree. Written English is a heck of a lot harder
to
master than programming. Most programming languages have a right and
a
wrong way: ie, black and white, works or doesn't. They have a very
limited
syntax and often there are many easily accessible books written on
how to
program in a given language. English, on the other hand, has too many shades of grey to make it
easy to
master. Syntax, grammatical rules, spelling: all these things change
based
not just on what country you're in but often depending on the region
of a
country. In English, it's very difficult to pin down 'write' and
wrong,
once you get beyond the basics of spelling and grammar. It becomes
much
more subjective and more difficult to define.
I agree. Teaching a small child to read and write brings it home just how erratic the english language can be. I think a few hundred years ago it may have made more sense, when "when" was spoken aloud with the "h" being audible, and the "k" in "knee" or "knight" also was heard. But look at bough, cough, through. As a small child, language is learnt first by ear then by reading. So any input at that age is more likely to result in proper spelling and grammer if the parents of a small child talk to them properly, and later if they are encouraged to read the written word.
OK I know you've all seen it before but I would like to add
EUROPEAN STANDARD ENGLISH
The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other contender. Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had room for improvement and has therefore accepted a five year phasing in of "Euro-English".
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k", which should klear up some konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f", making words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.
In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e" is disgrasful.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptive to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!
also I would like to mention the books feersum endjinn and Train spotting. Both these books use a phonetic english which is quite easy to understand and although breaking may spellings I know of foriegn people who understood trainspoting perfectly.
English is crap in the respect of silent characters and bits which aren't required, hence the quote above.
Hmmm... again, I think it's easy to blame the education system and
"trendy
methods" for falling standards, but I think a portion of the blame
should
also be directed at the parents and society. TV doesn't encourage
reading
and writing; the fast food disposable lifestyles we live also
prohibit
attention to detail and focus on results over accuracy.
Well, that one starts off a whole new debate on responsibility - who is responsible in this society and for what. Can you point a finger at a parent who sits their kid in front of the telly stuffing hamburgers when it is the way they were brought up themselves? At what point does someone have to face the fact that each person is ultimately responsible for themselves? (I don't know what I think the answer to this one is, it all makes me a bit confused).
In that case you blame there parents and then so on. I think alot of parents take little responsiblity for there off spring and as such cause problems. And when you add in laws about smacking kids etc... how are you supposed to disapline a child? "I say my son would you kindly refrain from smoking?" "f*** off dad!" It wont work. SO i blame society who bring in these rules and the people like mary whithouse, 9 O'clcok water shed! Bollocks! If people want to watch things when they want to they will. It is not upto the BBC to help keep children from what people think is in appropriate, it is up to there parents. The problem is parenting ansd socail responsiblity aren't impressed upon people, which as much as it hurts me to say it, because the lack of infleunce of religion on people. The church had the role of teaching people on moral issues and educating and supporting them through raising there off spring.
Laurie Brown wrote:
I've learnt that my views on grammar and written English differ a little from most other people's...
Oh yes, how is that? Jenny
Laurie, How old are you, if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks
D
===== -------------------- "We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." Linus Torvalds
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
-
David Freeman -
Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com