What I meant was that if you edit the HTML rather than use the GUI, the HTML is all bunched up and not spaced out so that it is easy to read for those of us out there that are rookies and will struggle anyway.
Sorry that I was not that clear the first time.
Tracy x
-----Original Message----- From: main-bounces@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main-bounces@lists.alug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Brett Parker Sent: 22 February 2007 11:00 To: main@lists.alug.org.uk Subject: Re: [ALUG] Wiki
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 10:46:33AM -0000, Tracy Dickerson wrote:
Hello,
From a non technical point of view (i.e. mine) I am finding the Wiki a
very difficult place to edit.
I just had to ask one of the kind fellas here at work to help me add my name to the 'Whos Who' list as there was not a option in the 'Edit (GUI)' tab to add a line as it is not active.
OK - from the Edit (GUI) type link, to add a row to the table, right click in any cell, hit Insert Row - works very similar to any other editor that does tables :) (Just checked that it worked as I expected, because I'm a "Edit (Text)" person, I like wiki markup and find it quicker and easier than using the GUI).
Please can we make this Wiki user friendly to people who cannot use HTML. Or can we order the HTML page views so that someone like me has a hope in hell of understanding it with a book.
What do you mean by "order the HTML page views"? I'm not entirely sure that I follow!
Thanks,
Hi Tracey,
If you could (possibly off list) email me a screenshot of what's happening for you, as it looks pretty much exactly as it appears on the wiki when I do edit (gui).
Cheers, Rob.
On 22/02/07, Tracy Dickerson tdickerson@ludologic.com wrote:
What I meant was that if you edit the HTML rather than use the GUI, the HTML is all bunched up and not spaced out so that it is easy to read for those of us out there that are rookies and will struggle anyway.
Sorry that I was not that clear the first time.
Tracy x
-----Original Message----- From: main-bounces@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main-bounces@lists.alug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Brett Parker Sent: 22 February 2007 11:00 To: main@lists.alug.org.uk Subject: Re: [ALUG] Wiki
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 10:46:33AM -0000, Tracy Dickerson wrote:
Hello,
From a non technical point of view (i.e. mine) I am finding the Wiki a
very difficult place to edit.
I just had to ask one of the kind fellas here at work to help me add my name to the 'Whos Who' list as there was not a option in the 'Edit (GUI)' tab to add a line as it is not active.
OK - from the Edit (GUI) type link, to add a row to the table, right click in any cell, hit Insert Row - works very similar to any other editor that does tables :) (Just checked that it worked as I expected, because I'm a "Edit (Text)" person, I like wiki markup and find it quicker and easier than using the GUI).
Please can we make this Wiki user friendly to people who cannot use HTML. Or can we order the HTML page views so that someone like me has a hope in hell of understanding it with a book.
What do you mean by "order the HTML page views"? I'm not entirely sure that I follow!
Thanks,
Brett Parker
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
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It's great to see you're getting some immediate help Tracy cos I'm stuck at work and will shortly have to start doing some ... :)
I'm sure with some practice you'll pick up the basics and it shouldn't become too onerous. I am completely new to moinmoin too but I spent some time in the Sandbox area last night, just playing through the syntax examples and picked up a lot.
I'm also wondering if perhaps there might be enough interest in learning about the wiki to run a tutorial session at the proposed Syleham kit meet?
Is anyone else having difficulty? I suspect that by the time the kit meet rolls around, those who have an interest in editing the wiki will be stuck in by then, but I thought I'd put the suggestion out there.
Peter.
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 11:31 +0000, samwise wrote:
I'm also wondering if perhaps there might be enough interest in learning about the wiki to run a tutorial session at the proposed Syleham kit meet?
If enough people show interest then it is probably a good idea with only one minor flaw, last time I attended Syleham didn't have any net access so the tutorial would have to be run on a local instance of the wiki
Unless of course someone has some spare mobile data in their bundle they want to donate :-)
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:04:57AM -0000, Tracy Dickerson wrote:
What I meant was that if you edit the HTML rather than use the GUI, the HTML is all bunched up and not spaced out so that it is easy to read for those of us out there that are rookies and will struggle anyway.
Sorry that I was not that clear the first time.
The layout is up to you. Space it out as you want.
If you use the GUI editor it will probably screw up the layout completely, it certainly won't produce something easy to follow if you then go back and play with the HTML.
It's one of the reasons that I never feel really comfortable writing HTML, there seems to be no really elegant way to format it. (I'm used to C/C++/Java which generally can be laid out elegantly)
Cue a 'how to format HTML' flame fest! :-) (I hope not)
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:37:33AM +0000, Eur Ing Chris Green wrote:
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:04:57AM -0000, Tracy Dickerson wrote:
What I meant was that if you edit the HTML rather than use the GUI, the HTML is all bunched up and not spaced out so that it is easy to read for those of us out there that are rookies and will struggle anyway.
Sorry that I was not that clear the first time.
The layout is up to you. Space it out as you want.
If you use the GUI editor it will probably screw up the layout completely, it certainly won't produce something easy to follow if you then go back and play with the HTML.
It's one of the reasons that I never feel really comfortable writing HTML, there seems to be no really elegant way to format it. (I'm used to C/C++/Java which generally can be laid out elegantly)
Cue a 'how to format HTML' flame fest! :-) (I hope not)
*GRIN* - nicely, the GUI editor if you edit the source and do things that you couldn't do in the Edit (Text) style (i.e. things that it can't translate back in to wiki syntax) on a save it strips it out...
Probably the best idea is to remove the "Source" link from the GUI editor, and either mark things up in MoinMoin wiki syntax or use the GUI editor, but avoid editing the "HTML" because that's really quite broken.
(In theory the HTML could be run through tidy before it's displayed which would make it more editable - but this is a wiki, wiki syntax wins generally, and is easier for other people to modify later).
Just my 2p,
The layout is up to you. Space it out as you want.
If you use the GUI editor it will probably screw up the layout completely, it certainly won't produce something easy to follow if you then go back and play with the HTML.
Heartily agreed ... :)
It's one of the reasons that I never feel really comfortable writing HTML, there seems to be no really elegant way to format it. (I'm used to C/C++/Java which generally can be laid out elegantly)
Cue a 'how to format HTML' flame fest! :-) (I hope not)
Hmm .. I'm not going to get into the HTML debate(!) but it's worth pointing out, that the wiki syntax in use here is not meant to be HTML - in fact, unless certain extensions are installed, vanilla HTML simply won't work.
Wiki pages can become very complex, if HTML is enabled and contributors who can't be bothered to learn the wiki syntax cram the pages full of <table> tags, for instance. That kind of HTML is also likely to ruin the usefulness of the GUI editor too, I would think.
It's certainly useful to know how HTML works, but that knowledge needs translating into wiki form to avoid bunging up the works ...
Peter.
It's one of the reasons that I never feel really comfortable writing HTML, there seems to be no really elegant way to format it. (I'm used to C/C++/Java which generally can be laid out elegantly)
Cue a 'how to format HTML' flame fest! :-) (I hope not)
The biggest problem with any HTML formatting structure is that the browsers ... (by which I mean usually IE 6&7) will often interpret random bits of whitespace between elements as ... well whitespace between elements. (I've had lots of problems with whitespace between Image and Map tags causing gaps on pages in IE). So no matter how well you might WANT to format your HTML, you might not be "allowed" to.
JT
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:47:51AM +0000, samwise wrote:
The layout is up to you. Space it out as you want.
If you use the GUI editor it will probably screw up the layout completely, it certainly won't produce something easy to follow if you then go back and play with the HTML.
Heartily agreed ... :)
It's one of the reasons that I never feel really comfortable writing HTML, there seems to be no really elegant way to format it. (I'm used to C/C++/Java which generally can be laid out elegantly)
Cue a 'how to format HTML' flame fest! :-) (I hope not)
Hmm .. I'm not going to get into the HTML debate(!) but it's worth pointing out, that the wiki syntax in use here is not meant to be HTML
- in fact, unless certain extensions are installed, vanilla HTML
simply won't work.
Yes, I'd sort of forgotten that we're talking about a Wiki here. Does the 'GUI Editor' produce HTML or Wiki markup?
Wiki pages can become very complex, if HTML is enabled and contributors who can't be bothered to learn the wiki syntax cram the pages full of <table> tags, for instance. That kind of HTML is also likely to ruin the usefulness of the GUI editor too, I would think.
Yes, I agree, stay with Wiki markup as far as possible.
It's certainly useful to know how HTML works, but that knowledge needs translating into wiki form to avoid bunging up the works ...
Yes, agree again.
Yes, I'd sort of forgotten that we're talking about a Wiki here. Does the 'GUI Editor' produce HTML or Wiki markup?
Curiously, it does produce wiki syntax but it uses the "old-style" HTML-like syntax ... rather than the simpler moinmoin-specific syntax. You can see the two different ways of writing things, if you browse the Help / WikiSyntax pages.
Curiouser and curiouser ...
Sam.
-
Brett Parker -
Eur Ing Chris Green -
James Taylor -
Rob Page -
samwise -
Tracy Dickerson -
Wayne Stallwood