Hi Guys,
I just thought I'd drop a quick email to the list just to clarify that the Alug list is a plain text only list but I'm bending the rules a bit for new joiners to the list as I feel it is better to let them participate and get involved with Alug instead of freezing them out straight away.
When we get new people join the list who have a mail held for moderation because it has an html part I am going to let the post through and then mail the new joiner directly asking them to try and post in plain text only. (Obviously if they have posted with html and it has created a massive attachement then I will not allow it to go to the list).
Obviously this isn't set in stone as it's up to the people on the list what we do but I'd like to hear a few opinions of if people think I'm doing the right/wrong thing.
Thanks Adam
-----Original Message----- From: main-bounces@lists.alug.org.uk [mailto:main- bounces@lists.alug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Bower Sent: 17 May 2006 21:01 To: main@lists.alug.org.uk Subject: [ALUG] This list and html email.
Hi Guys,
I just thought I'd drop a quick email to the list just to clarify that the Alug list is a plain text only list but I'm bending the rules a bit for new joiners to the list as I feel it is better to let them participate and get involved with Alug instead of freezing them out straight away.
Agreed rejected mail or acid comment to list newbies will cause offence and not send out the right friendly message.
When we get new people join the list who have a mail held for moderation because it has an html part I am going to let the post through and then mail the new joiner directly asking them to try and post in plain text only. (Obviously if they have posted with html and it has created a massive attachement then I will not allow it to go to the list).
Common sense here will work.
Obviously this isn't set in stone as it's up to the people on the list what we do but I'd like to hear a few opinions of if people think I'm doing the right/wrong thing.
I'm in agreement and will be handling things the same way depending on comments from list members posted here.
Cheers, BJ (the other list admin)
"John Woodard" mail@johnwoodard.co.uk
Agreed rejected mail or acid comment to list newbies will cause offence and not send out the right friendly message.
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only. Do not reject with an acid comment. If you want, you can forward their email back to them easily from the admin panel. If html email is a growing problem, you can make it clearer on the list signup page that html duplicates are not wanted, maybe with links to instructions for commonly-broken email software.
Several people on this list ignore or canned-reply to html email attachments (quite legitimately, in my opinion). That will not send out a friendly message either, if someone's first batch of replies include N off-list "don't do that again" replies.
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 07:27:06AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
"John Woodard" mail@johnwoodard.co.uk
Agreed rejected mail or acid comment to list newbies will cause offence and not send out the right friendly message.
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only. Do not reject with an acid comment. If you want, you can forward their email back to them easily from the admin panel. If html email is a growing problem, you can make it clearer on the list signup page that html duplicates are not wanted, maybe with links to instructions for commonly-broken email software.
Several people on this list ignore or canned-reply to html email attachments (quite legitimately, in my opinion). That will not send out a friendly message either, if someone's first batch of replies include N off-list "don't do that again" replies.
Although I don't like HTML E-Mail it really doesn't bother me much. Using Lynx with mutt means that it's hardly noticeable, just an attachment line above the text and that's it.
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 07:27 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only.
Is that even possible with the free version of Hotmail ?
Personally it doesn't bother me, I didn't even notice in Evolution until Adam's original mail.
I think rejecting html mail even politely doesn't do the list any favours. I much prefer Adam's original suggestion that it be tolerated whilst we educate people on how/why to switch.
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 08:58:54AM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 07:27 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only.
Is that even possible with the free version of Hotmail ?
Apparently not, I just got an email from our new joiner. She's indicated that when she has a working network card with linux she will be changing her email address to something she can send plain text only from.
I think rejecting html mail even politely doesn't do the list any favours. I much prefer Adam's original suggestion that it be tolerated whilst we educate people on how/why to switch.
Exactly, I think we have a good example of why rejecting mail can be bad given that we have someone wanting to make a switch and we can try to go the extra mile in helping them as they are a bit stuck at the moment.
Thanks Adam
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 09:08:18AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 08:58:54AM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 07:27 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only.
Is that even possible with the free version of Hotmail ?
Apparently not, I just got an email from our new joiner. She's indicated that when she has a working network card with linux she will be changing her email address to something she can send plain text only from.
Wow, having just logged in to my (mostly dormant) hotmail account, yeah - I'll confirm that you really can't set any sane defaults at all. It really doesn't give you *any* options for what format the outgoing mail is going to be in - that really isn't nice...
It used to be that linuxmail.org offered a nice(ish) free mail service, I've just done a quick test subscription to see what it's like these days - it still does real plain text mail (woo!) but there's more popups and random advertising than I'd really like, and it adds an advertising signature to each mail you send, which is annoying.
I can't remember if Yahoo mail is as annoying as hotmail in this respect either.
Anyone out there using gmail (I'm not, and haven't got an account or any invites, and don't want them...), can that actually manage to send plain text e-mail?
Cheers,
On 5/18/06, Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Anyone out there using gmail (I'm not, and haven't got an account or any invites, and don't want them...), can that actually manage to send plain text e-mail?
Yes, gmail can send pain text :-)
Tim.
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 09:27 +0100, Tim Green wrote:
Yes, gmail can send pain text :-)
Tim.
Better than that, the default seems to be text and the only other alternative is UTF-8
This for me demonstrates why Microsoft still don't get it.
HTML allows loads of "cool" features like being able to set a fancy background to your email, having an animated company logo in your sig etc etc...They can't see past those features and understand why you would want to format your communications any other way and therefore why offer anything other than the default HTML (which in their eyes is so obviously superior that it would be a waste of code to offer anything else)
It's not an anti-Microsoft rant, more that I am beginning to believe that some of the things we put down to anti-competitive behaviour are simply incompetence.
On 5/18/06, Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com wrote:
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 09:27 +0100, Tim Green wrote:
Yes, gmail can send pain text :-)
Better than that, the default seems to be text and the only other alternative is UTF-8
This for me demonstrates why Microsoft still don't get it.
Gmail's email composer does have a button to switch to "Rich formatting >>". I never use it.
Tim.
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 08:58:54AM +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Thu, 2006-05-18 at 07:27 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only.
Is that even possible with the free version of Hotmail ?
Personally it doesn't bother me, I didn't even notice in Evolution until Adam's original mail.
I think rejecting html mail even politely doesn't do the list any favours. I much prefer Adam's original suggestion that it be tolerated whilst we educate people on how/why to switch.
+1. It's annoying, and I do mostly notice, but I only get *really* upset if there isn't also a real plain text part. If it's HTML only then it's bad, and that probably *should* be rejected, a multipart with HTML and plain text should be allowed through, though.
Cheers,
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 09:08:56AM +0100, Brett Parker wrote:
+1. It's annoying, and I do mostly notice, but I only get *really* upset if there isn't also a real plain text part. If it's HTML only then it's bad, and that probably *should* be rejected, a multipart with HTML and plain text should be allowed through, though.
Oh yeah, anything with only html and no plain text part will certainly get rejected. Just one thought, how badly does html screw up the digests?
Thanks Adam
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 07:27:06AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
"John Woodard" mail@johnwoodard.co.uk
Agreed rejected mail or acid comment to list newbies will cause offence and not send out the right friendly message.
Please reject html email politely with directions to post as plain text only. Do not reject with an acid comment. If you want, you can forward their email back to them easily from the admin panel. If html email is a growing problem, you can make it clearer on the list signup page that html duplicates are not wanted, maybe with links to instructions for commonly-broken email software.
Several people on this list ignore or canned-reply to html email attachments (quite legitimately, in my opinion). That will not send out a friendly message either, if someone's first batch of replies include N off-list "don't do that again" replies.
Define "several people", and which in particular do you think do that?
Thanks,
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 21:00, Adam Bower wrote:
Hi Guys,
I just thought I'd drop a quick email to the list just to clarify that the Alug list is a plain text only list but I'm bending the rules a bit for new joiners to the list as I feel it is better to let them participate and get involved with Alug instead of freezing them out straight away.
When we get new people join the list who have a mail held for moderation because it has an html part I am going to let the post through and then mail the new joiner directly asking them to try and post in plain text only. (Obviously if they have posted with html and it has created a massive attachement then I will not allow it to go to the list).
Obviously this isn't set in stone as it's up to the people on the list what we do but I'd like to hear a few opinions of if people think I'm doing the right/wrong thing.
Thanks Adam
I agree - html mail is heinous to look at, but people have had html mail splurged all over everything for so long now, that it's really not their fault.
I suppose the worst thing people can do for advocacy is to roast newcomers with standards fanaticism - although say it as I shouldn't, perhaps.
Seems like KDE is getting better at emulating MS Windows with every release... ;-)
Maybe, but their progress in that regard is slower than other desktops as they've been frittering their time away on developing the software instead of pontificating endlessly about usability guidelines, regressing their feature-base and heavily promoting Microsoft .Net and Microsoft C#.
Still, Gnome's got to be the best at something, I suppose. (miaow!) ;P
By the way, I've never heard of kmail sending HTML mails without some sort of user interaction on the matter..
Gadzooks,
Ten.
On Sat, May 20, 2006 at 12:01:37AM +0100, Ten wrote:
Seems like KDE is getting better at emulating MS Windows with every release... ;-)
Maybe, but their progress in that regard is slower than other desktops as they've been frittering their time away on developing the software instead of pontificating endlessly about usability guidelines, regressing their feature-base and heavily promoting Microsoft .Net and Microsoft C#.
Still, Gnome's got to be the best at something, I suppose. (miaow!) ;P
Gnome, KDE, harrumph. I spent quite a while with xfce and now even that has goot too 'heavy' for my liking so I've moved back to FVWM, bliss.
On Saturday 20 May 2006 16:21, Ian bell wrote:
chrisisbd@leary.csoft.net wrote:
Gnome, KDE, harrumph. I spent quite a while with xfce and now even that has goot too 'heavy' for my liking so I've moved back to FVWM, bliss.
I think the important thing to remember is that with Linux you have a choice.
Absolutely, and vive la difference. :)
-
Adam Bower -
Brett Parker -
chrisisbd＠leary.csoft.net -
Ian bell -
John Woodard -
MJ Ray -
Ten -
Tim Green -
Wayne Stallwood