Hi All,
I've been having a look into setting up a nicer looking default theme for the alug wiki, at:
http://www.alug.org.uk/wiki/moin.cgi/
However instead of writing my own, it might be worth nicking one that someone else has already written, and if required just tweaking that. So, I propose that all who are interested, go have a look at this nice friendly list of stuff we can steal and pick one:
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-ff1060dba5fbc752171749e9b34c...
Bear in mind, this isn't going to be *the* alug wiki theme, merely the one that gets set by default and for non-logged in users.
Unless one is vastly more popular, I'll set up a few of the favourites on my website, and then we can have a final vote on which it'll be.
Also, as a slight ps, is the alug wiki frontpage supposed to be the alug frontpage, as that is what it's looking like at the moment. If it is going to be the frontpage, shouldn't we make it the frontpage, and iif it's just being the wiki frontpage, then it possibly needs to be less 'welcome to alug' (and have this sort of thing on another page).
Cheers, RobRob.
Hi, Rob.
A new theme would be great to simplify the front view ... I've noticed that the WINE wiki is a pretty good example of how to not make it quite so scary to people unfamiliar with wikis:
As for the "should it be the front-page?", it'll come as no surprise to anyone (and possibly annoy some) but I would suggest that once we have all the useful content (i.e. not out-of-date references to sites and ppl which shouldnt be there anymore) moved to the new wiki, the old site should be archived.
At the moment, the current main site is made up of two separate ways of updating - the main site has a CGI script to edit the HTML directly, whilst there's also the six year old wikiwikiweb functionality in the Contrib section. Neither of these is particularly user-friendly.
I think it's because of this, the site has been left to stagnate for far too long. The emphasis for updating the content on the current site seems to mainly be on those who are managing the server - which is surely wrong (and, yes, I think we could technically go in and use the CGI script or Contrib section - but it's not clear, and does not appear to the casual user to be encouraged). All members be responsible for the content, whilst those who manage the website should concentrate on the admin functions that require access to the server - keeping the moinmoin wiki installation up to date, secure and installing extra modules (if required) etc.
Note: this isn't a slur on the current site or how it's built, it's just that the content is not current and having a mix of systems, including the editing of raw html, is not encouraging to less experienced users. It should be the responsibility of all members to maintain, rather than those few who have web experience.
Let the angry responses flow ... ;)
Peter.
P.S. Those with management access to the wiki might also want to decide what's best to avoid spammage in the future, as well. It could be that you restrict sign up so that someone has to ask for an account by mailing someone ... ? Or we could see how things go, with the current policy and react if necessary.
On 25/02/07, Rob Page page.rob@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All,
I've been having a look into setting up a nicer looking default theme for the alug wiki, at:
http://www.alug.org.uk/wiki/moin.cgi/
However instead of writing my own, it might be worth nicking one that someone else has already written, and if required just tweaking that. So, I propose that all who are interested, go have a look at this nice friendly list of stuff we can steal and pick one:
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-ff1060dba5fbc752171749e9b34c...
Bear in mind, this isn't going to be *the* alug wiki theme, merely the one that gets set by default and for non-logged in users.
Unless one is vastly more popular, I'll set up a few of the favourites on my website, and then we can have a final vote on which it'll be.
Also, as a slight ps, is the alug wiki frontpage supposed to be the alug frontpage, as that is what it's looking like at the moment. If it is going to be the frontpage, shouldn't we make it the frontpage, and iif it's just being the wiki frontpage, then it possibly needs to be less 'welcome to alug' (and have this sort of thing on another page).
Cheers, RobRob.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
Hi Peter,
Firstly, apologies if this email is really bitty, it's a monday morning and i'm really really tired, :-)
Yes, that wine theme does look good.
Dave (Paperface) mentioned to me on irc that the wiki will become the front page providing everything goes well with the trial - i wasn't aware of this when i posted.
I'd be a lot harsher on the current website ;-), mostly just cause it doesn't look like anythings happened on it for years.
As for the spammings, have we had any yet?
Cheers, Rob.
ps: Any preference on any of those themes?
On 26/02/07, samwise samwise@bagshot-row.org wrote:
Hi, Rob.
A new theme would be great to simplify the front view ... I've noticed that the WINE wiki is a pretty good example of how to not make it quite so scary to people unfamiliar with wikis:
As for the "should it be the front-page?", it'll come as no surprise to anyone (and possibly annoy some) but I would suggest that once we have all the useful content (i.e. not out-of-date references to sites and ppl which shouldnt be there anymore) moved to the new wiki, the old site should be archived.
At the moment, the current main site is made up of two separate ways of updating - the main site has a CGI script to edit the HTML directly, whilst there's also the six year old wikiwikiweb functionality in the Contrib section. Neither of these is particularly user-friendly.
I think it's because of this, the site has been left to stagnate for far too long. The emphasis for updating the content on the current site seems to mainly be on those who are managing the server - which is surely wrong (and, yes, I think we could technically go in and use the CGI script or Contrib section - but it's not clear, and does not appear to the casual user to be encouraged). All members be responsible for the content, whilst those who manage the website should concentrate on the admin functions that require access to the server - keeping the moinmoin wiki installation up to date, secure and installing extra modules (if required) etc.
Note: this isn't a slur on the current site or how it's built, it's just that the content is not current and having a mix of systems, including the editing of raw html, is not encouraging to less experienced users. It should be the responsibility of all members to maintain, rather than those few who have web experience.
Let the angry responses flow ... ;)
Peter.
P.S. Those with management access to the wiki might also want to decide what's best to avoid spammage in the future, as well. It could be that you restrict sign up so that someone has to ask for an account by mailing someone ... ? Or we could see how things go, with the current policy and react if necessary.
On 25/02/07, Rob Page page.rob@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All,
I've been having a look into setting up a nicer looking default theme for the alug wiki, at:
http://www.alug.org.uk/wiki/moin.cgi/
However instead of writing my own, it might be worth nicking one that someone else has already written, and if required just tweaking that. So, I propose that all who are interested, go have a look at this nice friendly list of stuff we can steal and pick one:
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-ff1060dba5fbc752171749e9b34c...
Bear in mind, this isn't going to be *the* alug wiki theme, merely the one that gets set by default and for non-logged in users.
Unless one is vastly more popular, I'll set up a few of the favourites on my website, and then we can have a final vote on which it'll be.
Also, as a slight ps, is the alug wiki frontpage supposed to be the alug frontpage, as that is what it's looking like at the moment. If it is going to be the frontpage, shouldn't we make it the frontpage, and iif it's just being the wiki frontpage, then it possibly needs to be less 'welcome to alug' (and have this sort of thing on another page).
Cheers, RobRob.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
On 26/02/07, Rob Page page.rob@gmail.com wrote:
Firstly, apologies if this email is really bitty, it's a monday morning and i'm really really tired, :-)
LOL .. no problem, I'm not exactly firing on all cylinders myself, yet. :)
Yes, that wine theme does look good.
It strikes the right balance of looking like a web page to a casual browser, but still being fully maintainable by members, which I think is what we should aim for.
Dave (Paperface) mentioned to me on irc that the wiki will become the front page providing everything goes well with the trial - i wasn't aware of this when i posted.
Me either ... but I'm glad to hear it .. :)
I'd be a lot harsher on the current website ;-), mostly just cause it doesn't look like anythings happened on it for years.
Precisely. I could have been more brutal, but I'm aware others have obviously spent time and effort on it, in the past and we certainly need to make sure we don't lose anything in the shuffle but there is a lot of out-of-date information which needs sorting through.
As for the spammings, have we had any yet?
None that I'm aware and I'm not suggesting drastic action, but it's something I think we should consider to avoid the hassle of a clean-up job later. :) Like I said, I think the emphasis on content should remain firmly with all members - that frees up the website sysadmins to focus on the security aspects, like this. So long as they're happy with the security, I'm fine with it.
ps: Any preference on any of those themes?
Just had a look through ... I, personally, quite like MentalWealth and, perhaps, sinorca4moin and Widget. Something that is clear, simple and has a permanent menu bar structure for every page with the "main" links. Possibly Sand or zyf_rightsidebar_darkblue as well (tho I don't much like the colour schemes on those two).
I would avoid going for something which mimics MediaWiki - we're not running it (and AFAIK, not even the MediaWiki compatibility extensions) so I don't think it's a good idea to confuse people into thinking that we are. Oh, and I'd also avoid the really dark themes as well - they are a pain to read for some people.
That all said, I *really* like the wine wiki theme ... it feels pretty effortless to navigate.
Anyway, that's my 2p's worth - would love to hear thoughts from others ...
Peter.
On Monday 26 February 2007 11:51, samwise wrote:
I'm not exactly firing on all cylinders myself, yet. :)
Where's my coffee - I want it NOW!! ;-)
As for the spammings, have we had any yet?
None that I'm aware and I'm not suggesting drastic action, but it's something I think we should consider to avoid the hassle of a clean-up job later. :)
A suggestion here: Set up an rsync<->cvs/svn/etc cronjob (not sure how the current wiki implements revision control) and keep the backups off site. In the event of major spamming or system failure, the data can be quickly restored.. To that end, I can offer the services of zathras (my 24/7 box) to do take regular snapshot - Might need some assistance to set the scripts up.
Regards, Paul.
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 11:34:12AM +0000, Rob Page wrote:
As for the spammings, have we had any yet?
No. There's at least one easy to enable anti spam option, and the changeset support you get from Moin makes it quite easy to roll back any spam that occurs, so for the moment I'm just keeping an eye on it rather than putting anything invasive like requiring a logged in user in place.
J.
On 25/02/07, Rob Page page.rob@gmail.com wrote:
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-ff1060dba5fbc752171749e9b34c...
Bear in mind, this isn't going to be *the* alug wiki theme, merely the one that gets set by default and for non-logged in users.
I rather like the look of plsavez but I'm not sure it offers a sidebar with the main links readily available which is a pity.
MentalWealth and rightsidebarsmaller both look pretty reasonable. They appear very functional and easy to read with the sidebar of links at easy reach. MentalWealth is perhaps a tad dull though.
Balanced is another nice looking one, but lacking the sidebar of options.
The other one that I'd consider using is Widget.
Unless one is vastly more popular, I'll set up a few of the favourites
on my website, and then we can have a final vote on which it'll be.
Good idea to offer people a choice of what they like.
I hope my input helps make the decision process a little easier!!
Cheers, Pete
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:40:47PM +0000, Peter Thorpe wrote:
On 25/02/07, Rob Page <[1]page.rob@gmail.com> wrote:
[2]http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-ff1060dba5fbc752 171749e9b34cc6c93b66e939 Bear in mind, this isn't going to be *the* alug wiki theme, merely the one that gets set by default and for non-logged in users.I rather like the look of plsavez but I'm not sure it offers a sidebar with the main links readily available which is a pity. MentalWealth and rightsidebarsmaller both look pretty reasonable. They appear very functional and easy to read with the sidebar of links at easy reach. MentalWealth is perhaps a tad dull though. Balanced is another nice looking one, but lacking the sidebar of options. The other one that I'd consider using is Widget.
Unless one is vastly more popular, I'll set up a few of the favourites on my website, and then we can have a final vote on which it'll be.Good idea to offer people a choice of what they like. I hope my input helps make the decision process a little easier!! Cheers, Pete
Can I put in a plea for at least *some* floating layout templates/skins. On my screen, even though I don't run my browser full screen some of the fixed width layouts end up as a very narrow column down the middle of the window.
Rob,
Resurrecting an old thread here, but I just found what looks like a great example of a visitor-friendly MoinMoin-based site which looks good and remains easily navigated by non-wiki users. It's none other than the website of the Open and Free Technology Community who maintain the server which hosts the #ALUG IRC channel:
Definitely worth a look, if you still plan to play with the ALUG theme.
Peter.
On Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:07:30PM +0100, samwise wrote:
Rob,
Resurrecting an old thread here, but I just found what looks like a great example of a visitor-friendly MoinMoin-based site which looks good and remains easily navigated by non-wiki users. It's none other than the website of the Open and Free Technology Community who maintain the server which hosts the #ALUG IRC channel:
Definitely worth a look, if you still plan to play with the ALUG theme.
Tell you what, go better than that hunny, go look at what the ubuntu guys have done...
Half of the support sites, and I'm not sure about the main site, is all powered by MoinMoin (the same wiki engine we use!)...
I swear the other week when I was looking the main site said it was powered by moinmoin - there's a lot of people using it - it's a damned fine "wiki" - but it's also very very close to a CMS.
Ta,
Tell you what, go better than that hunny, go look at what the ubuntu guys have done...
Yes, munchkin. :) I think we discussed the ubuntu site a while back - but they have recently revamped it ... it still looks good.
Half of the support sites, and I'm not sure about the main site, is all powered by MoinMoin (the same wiki engine we use!)...
I swear the other week when I was looking the main site said it was powered by moinmoin - there's a lot of people using it - it's a damned fine "wiki" - but it's also very very close to a CMS.
I suspect there's a lot of under-the-hood customisation going on there, as well .. :)
They definitely have the right idea, tho ...
Peter.
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Tell you what, go better than that hunny, go look at what the ubuntu guys have done...
Why? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ looks like a pretty bog-standard hard-to-use MoinMoin with a top banner change. What am I missing?
OFTC is an improvement, but I'm sure ALUG can do better...
Regards,
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 01:29:27PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Brett Parker iDunno@sommitrealweird.co.uk wrote:
Tell you what, go better than that hunny, go look at what the ubuntu guys have done...
Why? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ looks like a pretty bog-standard hard-to-use MoinMoin with a top banner change. What am I missing?
"Hard to use"?! Maybe I'm missing something, but, err, what exactly is hard to use about MoinMoin?!
OFTC is an improvement, but I'm sure ALUG can do better...
Only when we find tuits.
-
Brett Parker -
Eur Ing Chris Green -
Jonathan McDowell -
MJ Ray -
Paul -
Peter Thorpe -
Rob Page -
samwise