Greetings all! As I posted a few days ago, I shall want to install Linux on a new laptop. For years I have been using Gnome 2, since in particular it provides for a row of "workspace" icons at the bottom of the screen. I use 20 of these, since much of the work I do involves switching between different workspaces in which different jobs are going on in parallel (and each could itself use up two or more workspaces).
A screengrab of what the screen looks like before I start anything up is at: http://www.zen89632.zen.co.uk/Misc/gnome2-debian-desktop.jpg The 20 workspace icons are at bottom right, and switching between them is easy -- mouse-click, or "Ctrl-Alt-RightArrow" or "Ctrl-Alt-LeftArrow".
This does not seem to be available on Gnome 3.
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
It's what I use and I'm very pleased with it.
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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On 26/06/17 19:28, Huge wrote:
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
It's what I use and I'm very pleased with it.
Ted,
I use Mint Cinnamon 17.3 and 18.1 every day, and can confirm that although they are based on Gnome 3, the functionality you require is built-in. LMC uses a tool called expo to manage workspaces (right-click on a workspace to launch it).
You may not be aware but the Mint team got fed up of the way Gnome was going and forked it, keeping and enhancing the parts they like and the community wanted, and adding new functionality.
I can't recommend LMC enough, and can confirm that - personally - I didn't much like MATE.
Anyway, you don't need MATE to have the functionality you require, nor do you need Gnome 2 if you go with LMC.
Maybe Ben could do you a live disk of both LMC and LMM for you to try.
Cheers, Laurie.
A. On Tue, 2017-06-27 at 09:42 +0100, Laurie Brown wrote:
On 26/06/17 19:28, Huge wrote:
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
It's what I use and I'm very pleased with it.
Ted,
I use Mint Cinnamon 17.3 and 18.1 every day, and can confirm that although they are based on Gnome 3, the functionality you require is built-in. LMC uses a tool called expo to manage workspaces (right-click on a workspace to launch it).
You may not be aware but the Mint team got fed up of the way Gnome was going and forked it, keeping and enhancing the parts they like and the community wanted, and adding new functionality.
I can't recommend LMC enough, and can confirm that - personally - I didn't much like MATE.
Anyway, you don't need MATE to have the functionality you require, nor do you need Gnome 2 if you go with LMC.
Maybe Ben could do you a live disk of both LMC and LMM for you to try. Cheers, Laurie.
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
Best wishes, Ted.
I have done you LMM, I will do LMC too.
Ben
Ted Harding mailto:ted.harding@wlandres.net I sh27 June 2017 10:12via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
Best wishes, Ted.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Laurie Brown mailto:laurie@brownowl.com 27 June 2017 09:42via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach
Ted,
I use Mint Cinnamon 17.3 and 18.1 every day, and can confirm that although they are based on Gnome 3, the functionality you require is built-in. LMC uses a tool called expo to manage workspaces (right-click on a workspace to launch it).
You may not be aware but the Mint team got fed up of the way Gnome was going and forked it, keeping and enhancing the parts they like and the community wanted, and adding new functionality.
I can't recommend LMC enough, and can confirm that - personally - I didn't much like MATE.
Anyway, you don't need MATE to have the functionality you require, nor do you need Gnome 2 if you go with LMC.
Maybe Ben could do you a live disk of both LMC and LMM for you to try.
Cheers, Laurie. Huge mailto:huge@huge.org.uk 26 June 2017 19:28via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
It's what I use and I'm very pleased with it.
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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Bev Nicolson mailto:lumos@gmx.co.uk 26 June 2017 19:18via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Ted Harding mailto:ted.harding@wlandres.net 26 June 2017 18:56via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach Greetings all! As I posted a few days ago, I shall want to install Linux on a new laptop. For years I have been using Gnome 2, since in particular it provides for a row of "workspace" icons at the bottom of the screen. I use 20 of these, since much of the work I do involves switching between different workspaces in which different jobs are going on in parallel (and each could itself use up two or more workspaces).
A screengrab of what the screen looks like before I start anything up is at: http://www.zen89632.zen.co.uk/Misc/gnome2-debian-desktop.jpg The 20 workspace icons are at bottom right, and switching between them is easy -- mouse-click, or "Ctrl-Alt-RightArrow" or "Ctrl-Alt-LeftArrow".
This does not seem to be available on Gnome 3.
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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On 27/06/17 10:12, Ted Harding wrote:
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
As I understand it, Cinnamon is cloned Gnome 2 but then improved. Mate is Mint's replacement for Gnome. I expect that they're both "better" than Gnome 3 for you, and for me.
I too didn't like the way Gnome was going so stuck with a LTS version of Ubuntu. Eventually it got out of date so I had to update. One machine went to XUbuntu which used Xfce desktop, the other went to Lubuntu which uses LXDE. LXDE uses less resources, but is harder to customise, but is very gnome-like. Xfce uses more resources (but still less than Gnome 3), and is flashy-er. I had to remove a all-singing-all-dancing status bar/running applications bar (which looked like something used on a Mac) and replace it with a boring simple one. Then I was satisfied that it was Gnome-2-alike enough for me. I use Xubuntu on a machine that needs LTS versions and Lubuntu on a low-spec laptop that I don't mind updating every time there is a new release (Lubuntu don't do LTS yet).
Good luck!
Steve
On 27/06/17 23:19, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 10:12, Ted Harding wrote:
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
As I understand it, Cinnamon is cloned Gnome 2 but then improved. Mate is Mint's replacement for Gnome. I expect that they're both "better" than Gnome 3 for you, and for me.
According to Wikipedia it's Gnome 3-based.
This desktop is running LMC 17.3:
---- cut here --- ~ $ apt-cache show gnome-shell | grep Version Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5.2 Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5 ---- cut here ---
Cheers, Laurie.
On 28/06/17 09:18, Laurie Brown wrote:
On 27/06/17 23:19, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 10:12, Ted Harding wrote:
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
As I understand it, Cinnamon is cloned Gnome 2 but then improved. Mate is Mint's replacement for Gnome. I expect that they're both "better" than Gnome 3 for you, and for me.
According to Wikipedia it's Gnome 3-based.
This desktop is running LMC 17.3:
---- cut here --- ~ $ apt-cache show gnome-shell | grep Version Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5.2 Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5 ---- cut here ---
Cheers, Laurie.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect it's using Gnome 3 technology, libraries, APIs, GTK3 etc but customised to make it look and behave like Gnome 2.
Steve
** steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk [2017-06-28 14:23]:
On 28/06/17 09:18, Laurie Brown wrote:
On 27/06/17 23:19, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 10:12, Ted Harding wrote:
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
As I understand it, Cinnamon is cloned Gnome 2 but then improved. Mate is Mint's replacement for Gnome. I expect that they're both "better" than Gnome 3 for you, and for me.
According to Wikipedia it's Gnome 3-based.
This desktop is running LMC 17.3:
---- cut here --- ~ $ apt-cache show gnome-shell | grep Version Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5.2 Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5 ---- cut here ---
Cheers, Laurie.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect it's using Gnome 3 technology, libraries, APIs, GTK3 etc but customised to make it look and behave like Gnome 2.
** end quote [steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk]
Having just installed Ubuntu MATE on my laptop to take a look and decide where I'm going after Unity (Gnome is looking far from promising and more like a toolkit to create a decent desktop with, if you can find the right extensions and enough of them!), I've found it very much Gnome 2 like. Things I've liked and then remembered I was using in Gnome 2 before the change to Unity. Some of them feel a bit dated now, but things can be tweaked to be more modern if you want to. A good amount of what is happening with MATE is under the hood with the migration from Gnome 2 libraries to Gnome 3. I've not tried Cinnamon or Mint, but MATE is looking very good for people who like Gnome 2, and interestingly, can be configured surprisingly well for people, like me, who have grown to rather like Unity. I guess personally I'm on a win win there :)
How about Gnome Flashback? I just got a link to this, haven't read it yet but might suit?
http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2017/199/Gnome-Flashback?utm_source=Lin... +Update&utm_campaign=Linux_Update_138_Gnome_Flashback_2017-06-28&utm_medium=email -- Phil Thane
www.pthane.co.uk phil@pthane.co.uk 01767 449759 07582 750607 Twitter @pthane On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 16:11:37 BST Paul Tansom wrote:
** steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk [2017-06-28 14:23]:
On 28/06/17 09:18, Laurie Brown wrote:
On 27/06/17 23:19, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 10:12, Ted Harding wrote:
Many thanks, Laurie. That clarifies a number of things! And, yes, live disks of LMC and LMM is an excellent suggestion. And I like (and really sympathise with) the reasons the Mint team went the way they did. In fact, "the way Gnome was going" turned out to be the main reason I have'nt upgraded my Debian for years!
As I understand it, Cinnamon is cloned Gnome 2 but then improved. Mate is Mint's replacement for Gnome. I expect that they're both "better" than Gnome 3 for you, and for me.
According to Wikipedia it's Gnome 3-based.
This desktop is running LMC 17.3:
---- cut here --- ~ $ apt-cache show gnome-shell | grep Version Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5.2 Version: 3.10.4-0ubuntu5 ---- cut here ---
Cheers, Laurie.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect it's using Gnome 3 technology, libraries, APIs, GTK3 etc but customised to make it look and behave like Gnome 2.
** end quote [steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk]
Having just installed Ubuntu MATE on my laptop to take a look and decide where I'm going after Unity (Gnome is looking far from promising and more like a toolkit to create a decent desktop with, if you can find the right extensions and enough of them!), I've found it very much Gnome 2 like. Things I've liked and then remembered I was using in Gnome 2 before the change to Unity. Some of them feel a bit dated now, but things can be tweaked to be more modern if you want to. A good amount of what is happening with MATE is under the hood with the migration from Gnome 2 libraries to Gnome 3. I've not tried Cinnamon or Mint, but MATE is looking very good for people who like Gnome 2, and interestingly, can be configured surprisingly well for people, like me, who have grown to rather like Unity. I guess personally I'm on a win win there :)
Thanks for an impressively prompt reply, Bev! But can you tell me where in https://www.linuxmint.com/ it says that it has (or can install) Gnome 2? Best wishes, Ted.
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:29 +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Thanks for an impressively prompt reply, Bev! But can you tell me where in https://www.linuxmint.com/ it says that it has (or can install) Gnome 2?
I'm running Mint17 with MATE (Mah-tay) desktop and although I have no idea which version of Gnome it runs, nor indeed how to find out, it has the workspace switcher you describe.
This says MATE is Gnome2 (and Cinnamon, the other standard desktop) is Gnome3.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/mint-17-the-best-linux-desktop-to-date/
I'm happy to look at anything on my system you might want to know.
Rgds,
H.
Best wishes, Ted.
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:37 +0100, Huge wrote:
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:29 +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Thanks for an impressively prompt reply, Bev! But can you tell me where in https://www.linuxmint.com/ it says that it has (or can install) Gnome 2?
I'm running Mint17 with MATE (Mah-tay) desktop and although I have no idea which version of Gnome it runs, nor indeed how to find out, it has the workspace switcher you describe.
This says MATE is Gnome2 (and Cinnamon, the other standard desktop) is Gnome3.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/mint-17-the-best-linux-desktop-to-date/
I'm happy to look at anything on my system you might want to know.
Rgds, H.
Many thanks to Bev, "Huge", and Phil Thane (private reply), for suggesting Linux Mint MATE and for confirming that this is indeed based on Gnome 2. So I think I'll go for that.
I guess I'll start off with a live CD/DVD so that I can see what it's like in detail, before settling down to the full install from an install DVD.
The Linux Mint website offers downloads of a variety of ISOs for building CDs/DVDs. However, I'm currently short of resources (lack of remaining disk-space on my one working laptop), so I'm wondering where to look to buy one. Suggestions?
Or could someone oblige (for suitable reward) by making one for me?
As stated previously, I'm near Littleport, on the King's Lynn to Downham Market to Ely to Cambridge axis, so that area would be more convenient than trecking out to Thetford/Diss/Norwich or the like.
With thanks again, and best wishes, Ted.
On 26/06/17 21:42, Ted Harding wrote:
I guess I'll start off with a live CD/DVD so that I can see what it's like in detail, before settling down to the full install from an install DVD.
The Linux Mint website offers downloads of a variety of ISOs for building CDs/DVDs. However, I'm currently short of resources (lack of remaining disk-space on my one working laptop), so I'm wondering where to look to buy one. Suggestions?
This looks OK: http://thelinuxshop.co.uk/
Bev.
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 22:24 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
On 26/06/17 21:42, Ted Harding wrote:
I guess I'll start off with a live CD/DVD so that I can see what it's like in detail, before settling down to the full install from an install DVD.
The Linux Mint website offers downloads of a variety of ISOs for building CDs/DVDs. However, I'm currently short of resources (lack of remaining disk-space on my one working laptop), so I'm wondering where to look to buy one. Suggestions?
This looks OK: http://thelinuxshop.co.uk/
Bev.
Again. many thanks, Bev! I'll bear it mind -- I can only see Linux Mint 32-bit listed, but there may be more beneath the surface.
Meanwhile, Ben Whyall (who lives in Littleport, which is on my way to most other places) wrote privately to offer to do one for me, so I;kk see how I get on there.
Thanks to all for useful responses! Best wishes, Ted.
On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 10:24:24PM +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
On 26/06/17 21:42, Ted Harding wrote:
I guess I'll start off with a live CD/DVD so that I can see what it's like in detail, before settling down to the full install from an install DVD.
The Linux Mint website offers downloads of a variety of ISOs for building CDs/DVDs. However, I'm currently short of resources (lack of remaining disk-space on my one working laptop), so I'm wondering where to look to buy one. Suggestions?
This looks OK: http://thelinuxshop.co.uk/
I've never really understood the apparently huge importance to poeple of what 'desktop' they're using. I suppose to some extent because I used to work (as in my job) on Solaris and went home to a Linux box (after I left cygwin) the environment was always changing so I just got used to it.
I have stayed with XFCE over the years (with the odd excursion into LXDE) and that has kept me happy. I did have KDE available as an alternative one a few systems for a while but never found it offered any advantages really. On Solaris I used FVWM and I also had that on my home system for a while, if it was still *easily* available I'd probably use it. However using a non-standard WM/Desktop does mean support is a bir more difficult.
On 27/06/17 09:12, Chris Green wrote:
I've never really understood the apparently huge importance to poeple of what 'desktop' they're using.
When you've spent 20 odd years working with a particular style of gui, you tend to get accustomed to it. You get used to having multiple windows on a screen. You get used to keyboard shortcuts. You get used to a scroll bar being there, and clicking below the "thumb" taking you down a page at a time.
But then along comes Gnome 3 which was redesigned because "the gui was getting in the way of efficient working" and decide that it's more efficient to have each window in its own desktop. That scrollbars should have right-click do what left-click used to do, and left click take you to where you clicked, and have the scrollbar disappear when you're not over it...
I used Windows 3 up to Windows XP, and Gnome 2 and could easily switch between the two because the GUIs worked in the same way. I tried Gnome 3 and Ubuntu's unity and basically hated both of them. Newer versions of Windows I also don't like. Basically because they're very different to what I'm used to and what I find works. Also, their improvements don't (to me) seem to improve anything.
However... I know it's just personal taste, and some people like the new versions of Windows, and/or Gnome 3 and/or Unity.
Steve
On 27/06/17 23:48, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 09:12, Chris Green wrote:
I've never really understood the apparently huge importance to poeple of what 'desktop' they're using.
When you've spent 20 odd years working with a particular style of gui, you tend to get accustomed to it. You get used to having multiple windows on a screen. You get used to keyboard shortcuts. You get used to a scroll bar being there, and clicking below the "thumb" taking you down a page at a time.
But then along comes Gnome 3 which was redesigned because "the gui was getting in the way of efficient working" and decide that it's more efficient to have each window in its own desktop. That scrollbars should have right-click do what left-click used to do, and left click take you to where you clicked, and have the scrollbar disappear when you're not over it...
I used Windows 3 up to Windows XP, and Gnome 2 and could easily switch between the two because the GUIs worked in the same way. I tried Gnome 3 and Ubuntu's unity and basically hated both of them. Newer versions of Windows I also don't like. Basically because they're very different to what I'm used to and what I find works. Also, their improvements don't (to me) seem to improve anything.
However... I know it's just personal taste, and some people like the new versions of Windows, and/or Gnome 3 and/or Unity.
Steve,
All of the above!
LMC is very like Windows 7, which is the last version of 'doze I used in anger. Whatever else is wrong with Windows, the XP/W7 interface was pretty good, and I've come to really like LMC, and find working with it a doddle. Of course, it also does lots of extra things XP/W7 never could, so that's all good too.
If I have one gripe, it's that I'd like to be able to set a delay on the hot corners, but that's being addressed, I understand.
Cheers, Laurie.
One of the many great things about Linux and free Software generally is choice.
When I started experimenting with a Linux dektop I used Win 98 desktop and 2000 server at work, and 95 at home. With very slow dial-up internet downloading a distro would have taken days so I bought SuSE 8.0 on a set of CDs. Default desktop was KDE2 which didn't seem much different to what I was used to, and crucially it had Kmail/Kontact which was much like Outlook.
Once I'd gained a bit of confidence I tried other desktops and distros and started writing about them for Micro Mart, but I kept coming back to KDE, on RedHat/Fedora, Mandrake/Mandriva, and others I've forgotten. Ubuntu was impressive when it arrived, and for me got even better when Kubuntu appeared.
I wavered when KDE4 was released too early and ran LXDE on my main machine for a year or more, but reverted to KDE when it became more stable. KDE5 is even better. Kontact on Kubuntu got flaky though, frequently needing to be stopped, have it's cache wiped and restarted. So I switched to the KDE version of Mint which seems almost the same but more stable.
That aside my wife has an old Kubuntu LTS version that works OK so will last a bit longer. I have Bodhi on an old laptop I got FOC from a NWLUG member before I left N Wales. Bodhi sems to use a custom version of Enlightenment, I've never enquired too deeply, it was just a stopgap while most of my kit was in storage during the move. I've got an old Dell netbook too with Lubuntu and Gcompris on it to amuse the eldest (6 year old) grand-daughter. And an old desktop running LAMP (Lubuntu etc...) as a webserver, mostly used with Nextcloud.
They all do what the users need and the great thing is if KDE 6 or whatever turns out like KDE 4 (or Windows ME) there's plenty of others to use instead.
-- Phil Thane
www.pthane.co.uk phil@pthane.co.uk 01767 449759 07582 750607 Twitter @pthane On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 09:59:39 BST Laurie Brown wrote:
On 27/06/17 23:48, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 09:12, Chris Green wrote:
I've never really understood the apparently huge importance to poeple of what 'desktop' they're using.
When you've spent 20 odd years working with a particular style of gui, you tend to get accustomed to it. You get used to having multiple windows on a screen. You get used to keyboard shortcuts. You get used to a scroll bar being there, and clicking below the "thumb" taking you down a page at a time.
But then along comes Gnome 3 which was redesigned because "the gui was getting in the way of efficient working" and decide that it's more efficient to have each window in its own desktop. That scrollbars should have right-click do what left-click used to do, and left click take you to where you clicked, and have the scrollbar disappear when you're not over it...
I used Windows 3 up to Windows XP, and Gnome 2 and could easily switch between the two because the GUIs worked in the same way. I tried Gnome 3 and Ubuntu's unity and basically hated both of them. Newer versions of Windows I also don't like. Basically because they're very different to what I'm used to and what I find works. Also, their improvements don't (to me) seem to improve anything.
However... I know it's just personal taste, and some people like the new versions of Windows, and/or Gnome 3 and/or Unity.
Steve,
All of the above!
LMC is very like Windows 7, which is the last version of 'doze I used in anger. Whatever else is wrong with Windows, the XP/W7 interface was pretty good, and I've come to really like LMC, and find working with it a doddle. Of course, it also does lots of extra things XP/W7 never could, so that's all good too.
If I have one gripe, it's that I'd like to be able to set a delay on the hot corners, but that's being addressed, I understand.
Cheers, Laurie.
** Phil Thane phil@pthane.co.uk [2017-06-28 10:25]:
On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 09:59:39 BST Laurie Brown wrote:
On 27/06/17 23:48, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
On 27/06/17 09:12, Chris Green wrote:
I've never really understood the apparently huge importance to poeple of what 'desktop' they're using.
When you've spent 20 odd years working with a particular style of gui, you tend to get accustomed to it. You get used to having multiple windows on a screen. You get used to keyboard shortcuts. You get used to a scroll bar being there, and clicking below the "thumb" taking you down a page at a time.
But then along comes Gnome 3 which was redesigned because "the gui was getting in the way of efficient working" and decide that it's more efficient to have each window in its own desktop. That scrollbars should have right-click do what left-click used to do, and left click take you to where you clicked, and have the scrollbar disappear when you're not over it...
I used Windows 3 up to Windows XP, and Gnome 2 and could easily switch between the two because the GUIs worked in the same way. I tried Gnome 3 and Ubuntu's unity and basically hated both of them. Newer versions of Windows I also don't like. Basically because they're very different to what I'm used to and what I find works. Also, their improvements don't (to me) seem to improve anything.
However... I know it's just personal taste, and some people like the new versions of Windows, and/or Gnome 3 and/or Unity.
Steve,
All of the above!
LMC is very like Windows 7, which is the last version of 'doze I used in anger. Whatever else is wrong with Windows, the XP/W7 interface was pretty good, and I've come to really like LMC, and find working with it a doddle. Of course, it also does lots of extra things XP/W7 never could, so that's all good too.
If I have one gripe, it's that I'd like to be able to set a delay on the hot corners, but that's being addressed, I understand.
Cheers, Laurie.
One of the many great things about Linux and free Software generally is choice.
When I started experimenting with a Linux dektop I used Win 98 desktop and 2000 server at work, and 95 at home. With very slow dial-up internet downloading a distro would have taken days so I bought SuSE 8.0 on a set of CDs. Default desktop was KDE2 which didn't seem much different to what I was used to, and crucially it had Kmail/Kontact which was much like Outlook.
Once I'd gained a bit of confidence I tried other desktops and distros and started writing about them for Micro Mart, but I kept coming back to KDE, on RedHat/Fedora, Mandrake/Mandriva, and others I've forgotten. Ubuntu was impressive when it arrived, and for me got even better when Kubuntu appeared.
I wavered when KDE4 was released too early and ran LXDE on my main machine for a year or more, but reverted to KDE when it became more stable. KDE5 is even better. Kontact on Kubuntu got flaky though, frequently needing to be stopped, have it's cache wiped and restarted. So I switched to the KDE version of Mint which seems almost the same but more stable.
That aside my wife has an old Kubuntu LTS version that works OK so will last a bit longer. I have Bodhi on an old laptop I got FOC from a NWLUG member before I left N Wales. Bodhi sems to use a custom version of Enlightenment, I've never enquired too deeply, it was just a stopgap while most of my kit was in storage during the move. I've got an old Dell netbook too with Lubuntu and Gcompris on it to amuse the eldest (6 year old) grand-daughter. And an old desktop running LAMP (Lubuntu etc...) as a webserver, mostly used with Nextcloud.
They all do what the users need and the great thing is if KDE 6 or whatever turns out like KDE 4 (or Windows ME) there's plenty of others to use instead.
** end quote [Phil Thane]
Choice is definately a win for techie types like us, although possibly not so much for non-techies as it can be overwhelming and it seems many like to be told which is best and then grumble!
I think I started similarly. The Windows 95 beta was easy to download at work, save onto umpteen floppy disks and then take home to install, but with DOS, Windows 3.x, 9x and NT and OS/2 2.x, 3.x and 4.x to deal with at work causing an overspill into having to use them at home (as a challenge to my trusty Amiga 1500), the extra time to investigate, download and install Linux didn't happen for a while.
Finding a copy of Caldera OpenLinux in PC World got me started with a nice install CD and conincided with having some hardware to install it on. That was the Looking Glass desktop and came with a Star Office CD as well (which I was already using on Windows and OS/2). I quickly moved to Red Hat and hence Gnome, but tried a load of different distros. I still have the stack of Cheap Bytes CDs I bought from the Linux Emporium, which from memory included Mandrake, SuSe, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat, I also had copies of Stormix, Progeny, Corel Linux, Morphix, Knoppix, the Linux BBC and goodness knows how many I've forgotten about!
Personally I didn't get on with KDE back in the 90s as it was trying too hard to be like Windows, and that was what I was trying to get away from. In fact I abandoned Gnome the first time because I didn't see it as adding anything to Enlightenment that it was running on top of; I didn't really miss much when it went and loved the middle mouse button to access the menu with all the apps, from anywhere on the desktop. By this time I had settled on Debian having abandoned Red Hat and left it in 'RPM Hell'.
I was pulled across to Ubuntu because of the better hardware support than Debian at version 6.06 (yes, that is right, it was delayed), and have stuck with it ever since as the best balance of current software, stability and recognition (for customers). Ubuntu pulled me back to Gnome, and I abandoned it when I decided to give Unity a go to stick to the default flavour. I am now re-evaluating and think there's a good chance I'll end up on Ubuntu MATE. Gnome is driving me up the wall - the frustration I get when using it is reminding me of the bad mood I so often get in when trying to do something on Windows! I probably should try KDE again, but when I have it hasn't had enough interest to keep me there - and much like Gnome and Windows it is getting very chunky with the default size of icons, etc.. (I know it can be customised).
My next question is going to be what to do about the family computers runing Ubuntu (son, mum-in-law and soon dad). Preferably an in place upgrade, but stick with the default of Gnome or switch? I'll put that off for a while!
On 28/06/17 16:34, Paul Tansom wrote:
My next question is going to be what to do about the family computers runing Ubuntu (son, mum-in-law and soon dad). Preferably an in place upgrade, but stick with the default of Gnome or switch? I'll put that off for a while!
I managed an in-place "upgrade" from ubuntu to xubuntu by uninstalling ubuntu-desktop package and installed xubuntu-desktop. I think that's all I had to do, but I also uninstalled some compiz stuff and changed desktop "manager" s/w because I had a slow machine with limited graphics capability. There are articles about how to switch desktops or flavours of ubuntu. Good luck!
Obviously backup first, in case it doesn't work!
Steve
Hi Ted
I live in Littleport itself and can do you a disk.
what flavour do you want, Mate 64 bit I assume ?
Ben
Ted Harding mailto:ted.harding@wlandres.net 26 June 2017 21:42via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach
Many thanks to Bev, "Huge", and Phil Thane (private reply), for suggesting Linux Mint MATE and for confirming that this is indeed based on Gnome 2. So I think I'll go for that.
I guess I'll start off with a live CD/DVD so that I can see what it's like in detail, before settling down to the full install from an install DVD.
The Linux Mint website offers downloads of a variety of ISOs for building CDs/DVDs. However, I'm currently short of resources (lack of remaining disk-space on my one working laptop), so I'm wondering where to look to buy one. Suggestions?
Or could someone oblige (for suitable reward) by making one for me?
As stated previously, I'm near Littleport, on the King's Lynn to Downham Market to Ely to Cambridge axis, so that area would be more convenient than trecking out to Thetford/Diss/Norwich or the like.
With thanks again, and best wishes, Ted.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Huge mailto:huge@huge.org.uk 26 June 2017 19:37via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:29 +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
Thanks for an impressively prompt reply, Bev! But can you tell me where in https://www.linuxmint.com/ it says that it has (or can install) Gnome 2?
I'm running Mint17 with MATE (Mah-tay) desktop and although I have no idea which version of Gnome it runs, nor indeed how to find out, it has the workspace switcher you describe.
This says MATE is Gnome2 (and Cinnamon, the other standard desktop) is Gnome3.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/mint-17-the-best-linux-desktop-to-date/
I'm happy to look at anything on my system you might want to know.
Rgds,
H.
Best wishes, Ted.
On Mon, 2017-06-26 at 19:18 +0100, Bev Nicolson wrote:
Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
On 26/06/17 18:56, Ted Harding wrote:
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
Ted Harding mailto:ted.harding@wlandres.net 26 June 2017 19:29via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach Thanks for an impressively prompt reply, Bev! But can you tell me where in https://www.linuxmint.com/ it says that it has (or can install) Gnome 2? Best wishes, Ted.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Bev Nicolson mailto:lumos@gmx.co.uk 26 June 2017 19:18via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach Ah. Well the answer I got a while back was this, Ted:
I'll have to dive in one day.
Bev
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ https://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above! Ted Harding mailto:ted.harding@wlandres.net 26 June 2017 18:56via Postbox https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sumlink&utm_campaign=reach Greetings all! As I posted a few days ago, I shall want to install Linux on a new laptop. For years I have been using Gnome 2, since in particular it provides for a row of "workspace" icons at the bottom of the screen. I use 20 of these, since much of the work I do involves switching between different workspaces in which different jobs are going on in parallel (and each could itself use up two or more workspaces).
A screengrab of what the screen looks like before I start anything up is at: http://www.zen89632.zen.co.uk/Misc/gnome2-debian-desktop.jpg The 20 workspace icons are at bottom right, and switching between them is easy -- mouse-click, or "Ctrl-Alt-RightArrow" or "Ctrl-Alt-LeftArrow".
This does not seem to be available on Gnome 3.
So can anyone point me to installation resources for a Linux distribution which has Gbome 2?
Scientific Linux: https://www.scientificlinux.org/ used to have Gnome 2 for some time after Gnome 3 came out, but it seems that it now only has Gnome 3 (though I haven't found definite confirmation of this on the SciLin website).
Any relevant info anf help will be much appreciated! Thanks, and best wishes to all, Ted.
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Ted Harding