Hi all, I am new-ish.
I still haven't found a GUI which I find intuitive. One of the problems with the current Windows system, and which is copied by KDE and Gnome, is the 'Start' menu system for loading programs. I hate it. It's better in KDE, where onmy set up all the applications are organised by type making it much easier to find stuff. But it is still a pain.
There is also, for me, an illogicality between using a 'Start' type menu, and the desktop - i.e. one being for apps and one for files (roughly). I just don't think this makes sense. Windows compounds this further of course by having a third environment - the Explorer.
I'm not sure what my ideal GUI would have. Probably Desktop-only, with a folder with applications on it, and one for files. Perhaps a floating toolbar with regularly used apps and the time and stuff on it, but even that might be making things too complicated!
Anyone else care to describe (as much as they can) their ideal GUI?
Dave
On Monday 20 Sep 2004 11:41, Dave Briggs wrote:
I'm not sure what my ideal GUI would have. Probably Desktop-only, with a folder with applications on it, and one for files. Perhaps a floating toolbar with regularly used apps and the time and stuff on it, but even that might be making things too complicated!
Anyone else care to describe (as much as they can) their ideal GUI?
Dave
Sounds like you're describing WindowMaker. It's probably on your distro's CDs. Install it and give it a go.
Matt
On Monday 20 September 2004 11:58 am, Matt Parker wrote:
To: main@lists.alug.org.uk
Date: Today 11:58:53 am
On Monday 20 Sep 2004 11:41, Dave Briggs wrote:
I'm not sure what my ideal GUI would have. Probably Desktop-only, with a folder with applications on it, and one for files. Perhaps a floating toolbar with regularly used apps and the time and stuff on it, but even that might be making things too complicated!
Anyone else care to describe (as much as they can) their ideal GUI?
Dave
Sounds like you're describing WindowMaker. It's probably on your distro's CDs. Install it and give it a go.
Also sounds like Windows, pre Win95 to me.... Win3.11 for Workgroups (shudder)
The problem I see with this interface is that if you bury the desktop folders then the only way to launch a new program or open a file is to minimise all your active windows or somehow bring those root folders to the foreground
That is why MS sort of turned Apple's solution upside down and claimed they had invented a whole new UI paradigm.
I am glad KDE does group applications by function, as it is somewhat less than intuitive that you need to use something called Mozilla to access the interweb, A thing called xmms to listen to music, The gimp to edit your family photos and so on...
One of my pet hates regarding the Windows start menu is how applications sometimes get grouped by the vendors name so you end up with things like
Start Menu > All Programs > symantec corporation > Norton Antivirus > Tools > AV Control Centre
Ok so that is at least partly down to the installers for the individual applications, but even so.....
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:41:34AM +0100, Dave Briggs wrote:
I'm not sure what my ideal GUI would have. Probably Desktop-only, with a folder with applications on it, and one for files. Perhaps a floating toolbar with regularly used apps and the time and stuff on it, but even that might be making things too complicated!
Anyone else care to describe (as much as they can) their ideal GUI?
You can configure Gnome as you describe above, all my commonly used programs (firefox, calculator, openoffice, newsreader, etc.) are on my gnome taskbar although that may be a bit heavy for such minimalist desires, I suppose you could also look at XFCE.
I tend to use my gnome gui as a complete desktop environment, with things like the weather applet, network i/o monitors, cpu/memory/swap/loadavg, typing break reminder, keyboard layout switching tools, sticky notes, screen resolution switcher, dictionary lookup etc. all over the place. I mean, I have all these things available so why not use them :) I have six virtual desktops for various apps etc. and have everything configured (well, everything that can be configured so) to remember where it should be when I login.
The only thing I am not keen on is file management, but then I have never really been fond of doing file management with any kind of gui or command line.
Adam
adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
although that may be a bit heavy for such minimalist desires
yes! I suppose it does sound minimalist. Simple might be another way of describing it. I think that even the highly computer literate among us gets used to doing things in a way that just doesn't make much sense. The great analogy of the computer screen being a desktop, with files in folders etc, seems to have been lost in favour of ever more complicated ideas.
On Monday 20 September 2004 12:16 pm, Dave Briggs wrote:
adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
although that may be a bit heavy for such minimalist desires
yes! I suppose it does sound minimalist. Simple might be another way of describing it. I think that even the highly computer literate among us gets used to doing things in a way that just doesn't make much sense. The great analogy of the computer screen being a desktop, with files in folders etc, seems to have been lost in favour of ever more complicated ideas.
Ok even as I type this I can think of about 600 reasons why it might not be such a good idea...but how about-
A task orientated desktop where each (of several clearly defined) task groups is assigned to a virtual desktop.
This is (sort of) how I work now, I tend to leave a web browser running on desktop 1 because I like my browser to be full screen if possible, Email and perhaps chat running in desktop 2 and maybe have some real work going on in 3 or 4
But how about if when I change desktops the launcher menu (and the files/folders on the desktop) change to a particular group of tasks.
So desktop 1 could be a internet/file browsing thing perhaps 2 could be media related tasks, 3 Office productivity and document generation and 4 system administration.
There could also be a sort of root desktop that had everything (although I suspect that people would end up just always using that one)
On 2004-09-20 19:01:32 +0100 Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com wrote:
A task orientated desktop where each (of several clearly defined) task groups is assigned to a virtual desktop.
In the past, I tried this. I also tried having a panel which flipped between maximised application windows in a style similar to a TV channel changer, for a while. Neither really works any better than having one desktop and keeping it tidy. Again, the metaphor is too close to the real world, it seems.
So, I'd say pick a window manager with good tools for managing windows in the way that you want, above all else.
On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 02:33:39AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
On 2004-09-20 19:01:32 +0100 Wayne Stallwood ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com wrote:
A task orientated desktop where each (of several clearly defined) task groups is assigned to a virtual desktop.
In the past, I tried this. I also tried having a panel which flipped between maximised application windows in a style similar to a TV channel changer, for a while. Neither really works any better than having one desktop and keeping it tidy. Again, the metaphor is too close to the real world, it seems.
I most definitely do this (have several desktops) at work and have done for many years, it works very well for me. I have four desktops (the default on Solaris' CDE), called 'Mail/News', 'Dev A', 'Dev B' and 'Console'. Mostly fairly obvious what they do I think, but I also run Mozilla on the console desktop. I have my terminal windows (where most development is done) set to 80 columns wide and can thus have two side by side without overlapping. On my development desktops I have two 80x25 terminal windows for running builds, checking logs, etc. and a big 80x60 one for editing. Many of the windows I bring up by default when the system starts up in the morning.
I use a similar desktop layout at home but not so complex as I don't do much development work there.
adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
I tend to use my gnome gui as a complete desktop environment, with things like the weather applet, network i/o monitors, cpu/memory/swap/loadavg, typing break reminder, keyboard layout switching tools, sticky notes, screen resolution switcher, dictionary lookup etc. all over the place. I mean, I have all these things available so why not use them :) I have six virtual desktops for various apps etc. and have everything configured (well, everything that can be configured so) to remember where it should be when I login.
Why oh why did you have to mention stickies on a list my girlfriend reads?! I came back to find my desktop looking like this: http://hippygeek.co.uk/images/stickies.png
The only thing I am not keen on is file management, but then I have never really been fond of doing file management with any kind of gui or command line.
Why can I not view ftp space in Nautilus? Is it not a feature?
tola ^/.
Ben Francis wrote:
-- SNIP --
Why oh why did you have to mention stickies on a list my girlfriend reads?! I came back to find my desktop looking like this: http://hippygeek.co.uk/images/stickies.png
Every time I see a screenshot I see something and think: "Whatever is that?!" This time it's your system monitor. What is it? I can't for the life of me figure it out!
tola ^/.
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:57:18 +0100, David Reynolds david@reynoldsfamily.org.uk was rumoured to have said:
Ben Francis wrote:
-- SNIP --
Why oh why did you have to mention stickies on a list my girlfriend reads?! I came back to find my desktop looking like this: http://hippygeek.co.uk/images/stickies.png
Every time I see a screenshot I see something and think: "Whatever is that?!" This time it's your system monitor. What is it? I can't for the life of me figure it out!
It's partially obscured by the armada of outer space stickies about to invade Earth and liberate their earthly brethren from human oppression :-O, but I think it's one of the little python applets that come with gdesklets.
tola ^/.
rgds, /-sb.
Stelios Bounanos wrote:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:57:18 +0100, David Reynolds david@reynoldsfamily.org.uk was rumoured to have said:
Ben Francis wrote:
-- SNIP --
Why oh why did you have to mention stickies on a list my girlfriend reads?! I came back to find my desktop looking like this: http://hippygeek.co.uk/images/stickies.png
Every time I see a screenshot I see something and think: "Whatever is that?!" This time it's your system monitor. What is it? I can't for the life of me figure it out!
It's partially obscured by the armada of outer space stickies about to invade Earth and liberate their earthly brethren from human oppression :-O,
lol
but I think it's one of the little python applets that come with gdesklets.
It is indeed. I can't remember what it's called exactly but it comes in bits, probably written by different people. I love playing with gdesklets but I have to admit they're not all *that* useful. Good eye candy though :D
Hi Ben
Might I suggest you change your password as it has obviously been compromised.
Regards, Paul.
On Sunday 26 September 2004 19:11, Ben Francis wrote:
Why oh why did you have to mention stickies on a list my girlfriend reads?! I came back to find my desktop looking like this:
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:41:34 +0100 Dave Briggs briggs.dave@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I am new-ish.
I still haven't found a GUI which I find intuitive. One of the problems with the current Windows system, and which is copied by KDE and Gnome, is the 'Start' menu system for loading programs. I hate it. It's better in KDE, where onmy set up all the applications are organised by type making it much easier to find stuff. But it is still a pain.
There is also, for me, an illogicality between using a 'Start' type menu, and the desktop - i.e. one being for apps and one for files (roughly). I just don't think this makes sense. Windows compounds this further of course by having a third environment - the Explorer.
I'm not sure what my ideal GUI would have. Probably Desktop-only, with a folder with applications on it, and one for files. Perhaps a floating toolbar with regularly used apps and the time and stuff on it, but even that might be making things too complicated!
Anyone else care to describe (as much as they can) their ideal GUI?
That description sounds very much like IBM's OS/2 to me. I used to find it much more intuitive than Windows back in the 3.x days, and 95 didn't really do anything to improve the situation. As you say, KDE and Gnome seem to be trying very hard to 'out Windows Windows', which may be great for migrating users, but one of the reasons I don't like Windows is the interface! I've always been out of sync though. When I first looked at Windows back when I was upgrading from an old 8 bit Amstrad CPC6128 and compared it with the Amiga I decided that Windows was a toy and not fit for serious work, whereas the Amiga with multitasking and a sensible desktop setup was a far more professional computer - hence I bought one and used it for WP, database, and DTP :-)
My personal setup is based on XFCE4, which comes pretty close to your description, although I've not looked into the desktop folders side of things having pretty much left the GUI for web browsing, DTP and office apps, leaving file manipulation, mail, etc. to the CLI. I suspect if I found a nice file manager that worked like the old OS/2 one I may start working with the GUI for some things again, but I've not found one that suits yet. Nautilus looks/looked promising, but like Konqueror it is committing the (Windows) sin (well, for me anyway) of trying to integrate the file manager with the web browser. It also depends very heavily on a whole batch of Gnome libraries - which is why I'm not installing Evolution either (although saying that, perhaps if there are more apps like that I ought to take a look!!!).
Personally I spend most time in either a web browser or the CLI, so a GUI is for launching apps (mainly lots of terminals!). I used to use Enlightenment and I still haven't got my desktop menus setup properly on XFCE (I used to have my main apps available for a click on the desktop bringing up a menu). A file manager would be nice, if I can find a decent one that works like OS/2. Multiple desktops is a must, as is mouse over focus (because I am forever wanting to type into the window in the background for various reasons).
Now I probably ought to go back and read the beginning of this thread instead of diving into the middle. :-)
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adam＠thebowery.co.uk -
Ben Francis -
Chris Green -
Dave Briggs -
David Reynolds -
Matt Parker -
MJ Ray -
Paul -
Paul Tansom -
Stelios Bounanos -
Wayne Stallwood