Humax PVR9200T and Linux per USB -- any experiences?
Dear list, The PVR-9200T is a DVB-T receiver / HD recorder with an USB interface, see http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/pvr-9200t.asp Does anyone here know what the USB interface has to offer from a Linux perspective? The technical specification and user manual are not too informative, they just indicate that there is some "media eLinker.exe" program included, which allows copying recorded video from the recorder's hard disk to a computer, but it's not clear to me whether I could also do this with Linux (the docs just mention the Windows software and don't provide any technical details about the device's USB port). Ideally, I would like to simply mount the recorder's HD and copy the recording in question to some more permanent storage -- but does the PVR-9200T implement the USB mass storage class? Best regards, Jan -- +- Jan T. Kim -------------------------------------------------------+ | email: jtk@cmp.uea.ac.uk | | WWW: http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/people/jtk | *-----=< hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans >=-----*
On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 18:48 +0000, Jan T. Kim wrote:
Ideally, I would like to simply mount the recorder's HD and copy the recording in question to some more permanent storage -- but does the PVR-9200T implement the USB mass storage class?
I am guessing that the fact Windows boxes need that elinker.exe indicates that access to the HDD content through USB isn't as simple as USB Mass Storage. For a start I am not sure how the device would handle having the drive mounted in two places (the internal firmware and the external USB mount) Therefore I am thinking that they have implemented some sort of file transfer protocol over USB. The forums seem to suggest that the device outputs raw transmission formats with the PC link, so elinker doesn't do any file conversion. Short of plugging one in and watching the messages log I can't think what else to suggest. Perhaps taking a Linux loaded laptop down to a friendly stockist ?
On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 11:05:49AM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 18:48 +0000, Jan T. Kim wrote:
Ideally, I would like to simply mount the recorder's HD and copy the recording in question to some more permanent storage -- but does the PVR-9200T implement the USB mass storage class?
I am guessing that the fact Windows boxes need that elinker.exe indicates that access to the HDD content through USB isn't as simple as USB Mass Storage.
For a start I am not sure how the device would handle having the drive mounted in two places (the internal firmware and the external USB mount)
umount the drive from the internal firmware, perhaps? That's what I think my digital camera does in effect -- upon connecting to USB, it shuts the lens and does not respond to any button presses, only the occasional blinking of the LED indicates it's switched on. Not a particularly clever solution, I admit, but from a product designer's perspective, not entirely stupid: At least, it foolproofly avoids any complaints resulting from cases in which someone deleted a recorded movie using the PVR's remote while someone else is trying to copy it (and the transfer isn't finished yet).
Therefore I am thinking that they have implemented some sort of file transfer protocol over USB. The forums seem to suggest that the device outputs raw transmission formats with the PC link, so elinker doesn't do any file conversion.
Yes -- the user manual I've found at http://www.hummy.org.uk/stuff/MediaeLinker0414.pdf looks to me like just that. It could still be that the program just works on top of a USB mass storage, and the somewhat odd instruction to turn off the PVR before plugging in the USB cable may indicate that the device boots into different modes depending on whether it detects a USB connection at boot time.
Short of plugging one in and watching the messages log I can't think what else to suggest. Perhaps taking a Linux loaded laptop down to a friendly stockist ?
That's a good idea. The PVR09200T is available from Hughes direct, so Hughes might be a place to try. Thanks & best regards, Jan -- +- Jan T. Kim -------------------------------------------------------+ | email: jtk@cmp.uea.ac.uk | | WWW: http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/people/jtk | *-----=< hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans >=-----*
On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 18:48 +0000, Jan T. Kim wrote:
The PVR-9200T is a DVB-T receiver / HD recorder with an USB interface
Actually the more I think about it USB is a really strange choice on what is otherwise quite a nifty looking bit of kit. USB depends on you having a PC quite near your TV..seeing as this unit is designed for a living room that is often not the case (it's the only room in our house where I am not allowed computers) and in 90% of households limits you to a laptop. What I would love is that device but network aware...So I can (using a html interface) browse the hard drive contents, upload and download files. Program the tuner and timers, monitor free space etc..Then it would (with a broadband connection and some security) allow me to get the nirvana of home video recording (being able to set the damn thing from work when you forgot to do it before you left) * I actually did a project for a college electronics course many years ago using a DTMF decoder and IR extender that allowed you to phone your video up and program it from the phone keypad, it was a bit limited because it could only set the timer not edit it...so if you made a mistake in the (difficult) syntax your machine would be left in a unknown state...probably recording a channel five documentary on recumbent cycles when you wanted Eastenders (or worse the other way round)...Got a good grade though so it did the job....oh and it was machine specific.
On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 11:22:37AM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 18:48 +0000, Jan T. Kim wrote:
The PVR-9200T is a DVB-T receiver / HD recorder with an USB interface
What I would love is that device but network aware...So I can (using a html interface) browse the hard drive contents, upload and download files. Program the tuner and timers, monitor free space etc..Then it would (with a broadband connection and some security) allow me to get the nirvana of home video recording (being able to set the damn thing from work when you forgot to do it before you left)
Buy a topfield TF5800 and a linksys NSLU-2 and stick puppy on it then the linksys will be the ethernet adaptor to your pvr box. This may or may not give you what you want, I'm happy enough with the topfield box that I can't be bothered to stick an ethernet interface on it or research it too much more. Thanks Adam -- jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li AFFS || http://www.affs.org.uk/ || Not a filesystem
On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 11:44 +0000, Adam Bower wrote:
Buy a topfield TF5800 and a linksys NSLU-2 and stick puppy on it then the linksys will be the ethernet adaptor to your pvr box. This may or may not give you what you want, I'm happy enough with the topfield box that I can't be bothered to stick an ethernet interface on it or research it too much more.
Interesting, looks like this device may also better suit Jan's needs...even if it is a little more expensive than the humax, at least there is some Linux support.
On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 03:43:13PM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 11:44 +0000, Adam Bower wrote:
Buy a topfield TF5800 and a linksys NSLU-2 and stick puppy on it then the linksys will be the ethernet adaptor to your pvr box. This may or may not give you what you want, I'm happy enough with the topfield box that I can't be bothered to stick an ethernet interface on it or research it too much more.
Interesting, looks like this device may also better suit Jan's needs...even if it is a little more expensive than the humax, at least there is some Linux support.
Hmm... I would rather like to avoid having to buy yet another gadget (linksys NSLU-2), but the people who made puppy and FtpdTopfield appear to have access to, or have figured out the Topfield USB protocol. And since this stuff runs on top of an embedded Linux system, I wonder whether someone has ported this stuff to the PC based Linux system platform. Is that available somewhere? I don't expect to want to download that many recordings from a PVR anyway, and for the few occasions, a simplistic tool (perhaps similar to pilot-xfer) would be quite sufficient for me. Best regards, Jan -- +- Jan T. Kim -------------------------------------------------------+ | email: jtk@cmp.uea.ac.uk | | WWW: http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/people/jtk | *-----=< hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans >=-----*
On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 21:50 +0000, Jan T. Kim wrote:
I wonder whether someone has ported this stuff to the PC based Linux system platform.
Is that available somewhere?
Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com>
What I would love is that device but network aware...So I can (using a html interface) browse the hard drive contents, upload and download files. Program the tuner and timers, monitor free space etc..Then it would (with a broadband connection and some security) allow me to get the nirvana of home video recording (being able to set the damn thing from work when you forgot to do it before you left)
I think the dreamboxes are almost that, but I can't remember whether any are as good at being a PVR as the Humax. At worst, I think they can write video files to network storage with the right settings. http://www.dm500.co.uk/ At the moment, my main concern with TV is trying to figure out who is causing which problems that stop the Humax and DreamBox satellite receivers working to their full potential in the UK. It looks like it's contracts between public service broadcasters and Sky, so maybe the Office of Fair Trading can take a look: if anyone has experience with this and would like to help make GNU/Linux-based PVRs more viable in the UK, email me off-list. Sky+ is not a very good PVR system, in my opinion. Thanks, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask
On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 14:46 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
I think the dreamboxes are almost that, but I can't remember whether any are as good at being a PVR as the Humax. At worst, I think they can write video files to network storage with the right settings. http://www.dm500.co.uk/
I know very little about Sat TV (the last time I had it was with the old analogue systems) Looks like an interesting product but nowhere on the linked pages does it tell me about the out of box capabilities...A list of specifications is fine and even desired, but some sort of description of what it does would be nice (even on the sellers site below it doesn't actually tell you what the thing does) Does it work with freesat, what exactly are the limitations with Sky, is it incapable of receiving sky channels even with a sky card, or just premium and pay per view content ?
At the moment, my main concern with TV is trying to figure out who is causing which problems that stop the Humax and DreamBox satellite receivers working to their full potential in the UK. It looks like it's contracts between public service broadcasters and Sky, so maybe the Office of Fair Trading can take a look: if anyone has experience with this and would like to help make GNU/Linux-based PVRs more viable in the UK, email me off-list. Sky+ is not a very good PVR system, in my opinion
I'd imagine the issue is something to do with the sky cards, Sky probably licence the decryption technology to partners and if you are not a partner you can't have the sky card slot on the front of the box. They are probably concerned that if the technology is provided in a more open format then it will be more easily cracked, not saying that security through obscurity is a good thing, but some people still depend on it....At the very least wouldn't such a box be able to save pay per view content and then facilitate it's transfer to something that could either view it again or redistribute it ? Perhaps Sky should offer a black box module (perhaps in the shape of a CAM card) so that Sky facilities can be added to other hardware.
Wayne Stallwood <ALUGlist@digimatic.plus.com>
On Sun, 2006-02-26 at 14:46 +0000, MJ Ray wrote:
I think they can write video files to network storage with the right settings. http://www.dm500.co.uk/
I know very little about Sat TV (the last time I had it was with the old analogue systems)
Oops. I thought there was a T variation on sale there for Freeview. My fault: I remember that site name, but it's not the best one about the dreamboxes. Try http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_overview.php for a list that includes the terrestial receivers. Answering the other questions:
Does it work with freesat, what exactly are the limitations with Sky, is it incapable of receiving sky channels even with a sky card, or just premium and pay per view content ?
It'll work with FTA sat (not freesatfromsky) and the limitations I can think of are: 1. five and the C4/E4/More4/FilmFour group are not available because of their questionable encryption contract with Sky; 2. the EPG data is limited to now and next because Sky boxes use non-DVB-standard data, which all seems to be generated by Sky because of their questionable EPG contracts; 3. you can't subscribe to most UK channels because they're only available to Sky card users and Sky won't produce a standard Conditional Access Module for their service, so Sky cards can only be used in Sky-approved receivers (= crap). On the plus side, you may be able to get locked channels illegally more easily than with a Sky box (I don't), you can get programme data other ways (such as bleb.org) and most UK channels aren't worth the inflated subscription fees anyway, so it's better than the Sky+ monthly charges. If you get bored, it's easier to add a second LNB or a motor to go European, if you have a Linux-based or at least DiSEqC/DVB-standard set.
I'd imagine the issue is something to do with the sky cards, Sky probably licence the decryption technology to partners and if you are not a partner you can't have the sky card slot on the front of the box. They are probably concerned that if the technology is provided in a more open format then it will be more easily cracked, not saying that security through obscurity is a good thing, but some people still depend on it....
That's pretty much it. There's a bit of discussion about Freesat in news:uk.tech.digital-tv just now which has added some new info to what I already knew.
At the very least wouldn't such a box be able to save pay per view content and then facilitate it's transfer to something that could either view it again or redistribute it ?
Well, yes, but timeshifting and so on is not illegal, except when technological measures have to be broken to make it possible. This is one of the problems I described to MPs recently. See http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/gplv3#apig-drm and http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writing/consult-apig-drm - help wanted.
Perhaps Sky should offer a black box module (perhaps in the shape of a CAM card) so that Sky facilities can be added to other hardware.
No perhaps about it, in my opinion. Thanks, -- MJ Ray - personal email, see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Work: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ irc.oftc.net/slef Jabber/SIP ask
i love my dreambox. there are ways to get it working just fine as a sky box i believe but i dont sub to sky so havent tried it. i posted to the list about this subject a while ago ill see if i can dig it out. here it is. one very fun piece of linux kit is the dreambox. i got one of a satsupplier in norwich and i havent looked back since. its a linux based satellite reciever, built in hard drive for time delay and recordings.combined with a £20 monoblock lnb(the thing that sits poking out of the dish) it picks up thousands of channels many of which show premiummovies, music, sports etc all free of the tyranny of murdoch. heres a nice little howto/intro http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/DigiTV/dbox-howto.htm alot of these channels are encrypted but the great thing about thedreambox is that because its hard drive based its able to emulate alot of the protection mechanisms. doesnt work for sky (yet, and even if it did youd be putting your headon the legal chopping board if you tried it) although it is possible to use your legit sky card in the dreambox thus freeing yourself from the unreliable digibox. theres a very active coding scene which means you are able to replacethe very nice but slightly boring original firmware with flashydistros (or images as they are often called.) im presently using plidiamond image from the plinux team. heres the release notes: The Diamond Images featuring:- 1.09 kernel (2.6.9)- 1.09 enigma (19-12-2005)- Squashfs 2.2-r2 withLZMA-compression- Front Processor version 1.06- New PMT Interface: anew interface between Enigma and an Emu/Softcam - Softcam / CardserverSetup incl. Sticky SoftCams using new PMT interface - Private EPG forPremiere - Manual (Un)Install of plugins/addons etc- Enable/Disableautomatic download of software menu index - Dreambox Tools: CheckCronjobs & Free Space; ECM-, Memory-, Mgcamd-Info, NetStat, Processlist - Tuxtxt v1.94 - Settings to control infobar on zap and OK -Skin: The name of the current running emu (e.g. 'camxng') - Skin: Thevideo format of the current service (e.g. '704x576 4:3 25 fps') -Skin: Caid types supported in the current stream - Skin: Frequency,FEC, Polarisation, Symbol rate - Language Setup- Var to USB/HDD- DebugSettings- Create your own script control panel under the Blue Setupbutton- Firewall ready- Crond ready- OSD supports: Yellow Button -Addons/Plugins, Blue Button - PLi Setup- Password change allowed byuser to any password- Games ready- CIFS enabled- New filenaming ofyour Recorded Movies,- It will be shown as ---- Full Media Highway EPGsupport for ALL Media Highway EPG providers- Menu Language selectionin your own native language- No SoftCams onboard ALL to be downloaded and their website http://pli.dreamvcr.com/diamond/releasenote/ lastly heres some satellite related websites which have tonnes moreinfo for those so inclined. http://www.i-have-a-dreambox.com/wbb2/index.php http://67.43.4.157:81/index.php? http://www.satdudez.org
participants (5)
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Adam Bower -
Jan T. Kim -
MJ Ray -
Ricky Bruce -
Wayne Stallwood