If anyone is looking for a cheap server machine to stick in a cupboard somewhere the HP ProLiant ML115 is being offered at knock down prices at the moment for some reason. The cheapest I could find with a quick search is:-
http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=40254&source=froogle
£105 for a machine with 1Gb memory, 160Gb hard disk, gigabit ethernet and space for expansion seems pretty good to me.
Hi,
2008/5/22 Chris G cl@isbd.net:
somewhere the HP ProLiant ML115 is being offered at knock down prices at the moment for some reason. The cheapest I could find with a quick
Did it fall off the back of the lorry? ;)
search is:-
http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=40254&source=froogle
Hmm. None in stock. + "ETA DATE: NONE EXPECTED"
Hmmm Indeed. Thanks Chris for the heads up.
-Srdj
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 09:03:45AM +0100, Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
Hi,
2008/5/22 Chris G cl@isbd.net:
somewhere the HP ProLiant ML115 is being offered at knock down prices at the moment for some reason. The cheapest I could find with a quick
Did it fall off the back of the lorry? ;)
search is:-
http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=40254&source=froogle
Hmm. None in stock.
- "ETA DATE: NONE EXPECTED"
Hmmm Indeed. Thanks Chris for the heads up.
It can be found for not much more from a couple of other places, I was alerted to it by an E-Mail from Insight. Lambdatek have them fairly cheap too.
Just to add a further option: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/140194
Fujitsu-Siemens Primergy Econel 100, PD 925, 1G, 160GB HDD, DVD-RW DL\DVD-RAM at £110+VAT = £130, delivered.
I'm biased towards the Fujitsu-Siemens as its a brand we resell, although I couldn't beat the above price. We've used several of these beasts for Linux jobs, although as servers (ie I've not really cared about the graphics, they've all been GUI-less, so I can't comment on that - I'm sure we've had some running Ubuntu with a GUI in the past without problems though).
If the GUI matters, they also now have a Linux desktop: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143780
Fujitsu-Siemens Esprimo Edition P2411 Sempron 3800+ 1GB DDR2-667 CD-RW \ DVD SATA = £120+VAT = £140 delivered
We've used a number of these in their Windows XP flavour for customers without problem (and usually at a good deal higher price than that, so its nice to see the lack of MS tax). I've not tried one of these yet as a Linux box - only discovered it yesterday - and have no idea what flavour of Linux is on it. Its very tempting though...
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:16:47PM +0100, Mark Rogers wrote:
Fujitsu-Siemens Primergy Econel 100, PD 925, 1G, 160GB HDD, DVD-RW DL\DVD-RAM at £110+VAT = £130, delivered.
I /think/ that the cpu in these machines uses a totally insane amount of leccy. You'd probably save more by buying a better machine and using less leccy in the space of a year over what you'd save on the purchase price.
Adam
On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:18:48 +0100 Adam Bower adam@thebowery.co.uk allegedly wrote:
I /think/ that the cpu in these machines uses a totally insane amount of leccy. You'd probably save more by buying a better machine and using less leccy in the space of a year over what you'd save on the purchase price.
See http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm.
Pentium D 925 not listed, but they aren't the most energy efficient of the intel range (a core 2 duo draws around 6-70 watts). Even so, a power differential of 70 watts over a year of 24x7 running adds probably about 80-90 UKP
Mick
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On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 09:34:13AM +0100, mbm wrote:
Pentium D 925 not listed, but they aren't the most energy efficient of the intel range (a core 2 duo draws around 6-70 watts). Even so, a power differential of 70 watts over a year of 24x7 running adds probably about 80-90 UKP
Aye, and with that price for running 24x7 I'd rather get a core2duo box and have a faster cpu that costs less to run. I'd also think that I'd probably want to keep the machine for 3 to 5 years and that adds up to an awfully large amount of dosh.
Adam
On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 09:34 +0100, mbm wrote:
Pentium D 925 not listed, but they aren't the most energy efficient of the intel range (a core 2 duo draws around 6-70 watts). Even so, a power differential of 70 watts over a year of 24x7 running adds probably about 80-90 UKP
You need to search for a cheaper energy suppler ;-) I think I get about 100 watts for that.
Comparing TDP doesn't really give you the full story as that is worst case and different processors scale in different ways between idle and full load, have different power management features etc.
As an example my new desktop is a core2quad which on paper has a higher TDP than my old AMD64, yet despite having 3 drives rather than one and a power slurping Nvidia 8800GT (compared to a cool running and bus powered old Quadro in the old box) I find that if my Smart Meter is to be trusted then it actually draws slightly less power when idle.
That said I think Adam is right and that CPU is known to be a bit of a power sink
Mick
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On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 09:34:13AM +0100, mbm wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2008 18:18:48 +0100 Adam Bower adam@thebowery.co.uk allegedly wrote:
I /think/ that the cpu in these machines uses a totally insane amount of leccy. You'd probably save more by buying a better machine and using less leccy in the space of a year over what you'd save on the purchase price.
See http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm.
Pentium D 925 not listed, but they aren't the most energy efficient of the intel range (a core 2 duo draws around 6-70 watts). Even so, a power differential of 70 watts over a year of 24x7 running adds probably about 80-90 UKP
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:09:49AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
Really? Who the hell are you with?
Adam
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:16:08AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:09:49AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
Really? Who the hell are you with?
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hi,
2008/5/23 Chris G cl@isbd.net:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:16:08AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:09:49AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
Really? Who the hell are you with?
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hmm, I'm on npower Juice Economy 7. Night = 4.22p, day=22p, if I'm reading this right. That's after the price increase. Before it was night=3.9p, day = 19.75p Is this a bit too much?
-Srdj
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:41:02AM +0100, Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
Hi,
2008/5/23 Chris G cl@isbd.net:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:16:08AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:09:49AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
Really? Who the hell are you with?
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hmm, I'm on npower Juice Economy 7. Night = 4.22p, day=22p, if I'm reading this right. That's after the price increase. Before it was night=3.9p, day = 19.75p
That's the same as mine but the 19.75 is only for the first X kwh, after that it drops. Since we use quite a lot we get most at the lower price.
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hmmmn, but looking at what they offer now.... Day rates are ~12p per unit and night ~4p and you have to pay a standing charge or some ridiculous rate for the first 729KWh (around 22p). So just choosing the cheapest part of the tariff isn't really a fair comparison.
We don't have E7, and pay ~12p per unit fixed rate, mainly because it is a much more transparent way to pay for our electrickery.
Adam
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:43:09AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hmmmn, but looking at what they offer now.... Day rates are ~12p per unit and night ~4p and you have to pay a standing charge or some ridiculous rate for the first 729KWh (around 22p). So just choosing the cheapest part of the tariff isn't really a fair comparison.
We don't have E7, and pay ~12p per unit fixed rate, mainly because it is a much more transparent way to pay for our electrickery.
We use quite a lot of electricity, we used to heat with gas but as we're not on town gas (it's delivered to a big tank in the garden) that has become *very* expensive. We now do nearly all of our water heating by electricity, overnight as far as possible and we also use electricity for 'top up' heating with a wood burning stove for main background heating. Thus the Npower rates work quite well for us as the high rate/standing charge is not a significant proportion of our spending.
2008/5/23 Adam Bower adam@thebowery.co.uk:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:20:10AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
Hmmmn, but looking at what they offer now.... Day rates are ~12p per unit and night ~4p and you have to pay a standing charge or some ridiculous rate for the first 729KWh (around 22p). So just choosing the cheapest part of the tariff isn't really a fair comparison.
We don't have E7, and pay ~12p per unit fixed rate, mainly because it is a much more transparent way to pay for our electrickery.
Adam
"you have to pay a standing charge" - you don't unless you wish to!
In the old days you paid a quarterly charge and still do with southern-electric £6 (think) - but you get it back if you pay bills promptly!
james
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:54:04AM +0100, James Freer wrote:
"you have to pay a standing charge" - you don't unless you wish to!
"or some ridiculous rate for the first 729KWh"
In the old days you paid a quarterly charge and still do with southern-electric £6 (think) - but you get it back if you pay bills promptly!
I was speaking about the npower tariff.
Adam
2008/5/23 Chris G cl@isbd.net:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:16:08AM +0100, Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:09:49AM +0100, Chris G wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Not to be ignored but not 80-90 UKP either.
Really? Who the hell are you with?
Npower, Economy 7. Those are the prices on the last paper bill I have which is late last year. So they are likely to be a bit more this year no doubt but not by a huge factor.
-- Chris Green
well... today's price! [inc VAT at 5%] E7 Day: For the first 728 kwh 23.205 and 13.335 thereafter Night: 4.220
single rate For first 728 kwh 13.545 and 11.865 thereafter Better off on single rate!
Try southern-electric - i've always reckoned they were a better bet giving £5/6 off if bill is paid on time. Excellent staff whenever you have to call.
james
On Fri, 23 May 2008 10:09:49 +0100 Chris G cl@isbd.net allegedly wrote:
Well on our tariffs it's only about £43 per year. Our peak time electricity is currently 8.81 pence per unit and off peak is 3.9 pence which makes close to 12p per day for 0.07kw. That's £43.80 per year.
Hpw the hell did you get that? You must be paying a massive standing charge. My leccy costs 18p/10p (high I know) but there is no standing charge and because I can't get gas (out in the sticks) I can't get any of the dual fuel saver deals.
If you can get me that kind of deal - let me know where from.
Mick
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On Thu, 22 May 2008 08:38:34 +0100 Chris G cl@isbd.net allegedly wrote:
£105 for a machine with 1Gb memory, 160Gb hard disk, gigabit ethernet and space for expansion seems pretty good to me.
Yes it is cheap - if you can get them.
But if all you want from the server is something like file backup or FTP/SAMBA/NFS whatever shared store, then I'd recommend going for a Linksys NSLU2 reflashed to run the OS of your choice. Stick a large USB disk on it and Bob's your relative.
I personally run two with Debian Lenny. One is my internal DNS/DHCP server, rsync backup and apt-mirror for Ubuntu, the other runs my NTP service, proxy, and Debian apt-mirror (plus some other stuff). The beasts are fanless, quiet and consumer bugger all power. Besides. they are fun to play with. Cost around 50 quid new or less on ebay etc - plus of course the cost of a USB disk.
Take a look at http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ and http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/WhatPeopleAreReallyUsingTheirSlugsFor
Mick
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On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 08:38 +0100, Chris G wrote:
£105 for a machine with 1Gb memory, 160Gb hard disk, gigabit ethernet and space for expansion seems pretty good to me.
Yes, as a company (and HP reseller) we have been selling these whenever we can get stock. The are a great little entry level server even at thrice the price. Also they have a pci-e x16 slot and are pretty quiet runners so can easily become a nice little midrange workstation.
They do however (or at least the samples I have seen) have the AMD Opteron dual core with the timing bug. I think this is probably why HP are clearing them in preparation of a G2 model or similar. It's not a major problem however as recent kernels detect and work around it and there is a patch for Windows from AMD. It may now even be fixable in firmware. Not sure how it manifests itself on Linux without the kernel detection, On Windows without the patch one of the symptoms is intermittent negative ping times.
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc...
Oh and currently they are pretty much perpetually out of stock anywhere selling them at this price :)
These are in stock at http://uk.insight.com for £120 + VAT.
I am running one very successfully at home as a Gentoo firewall/router and running OpenExchange on Debian Edge in a KVM Virtual Machine on top. Had to bump up the RAM a little, but its cheap to do these days. I have been very happy with it, but the on-board graphics had problems when I tried to install Ubuntu (Hardy) or CentOS 5 onto it hence it runs Gentoo.
As we purchase from insight at work, I have set up an Employee Purchase Program so get a slight discount - think I paid £115 inc vat.
Jim
On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 09:46 +0100, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 08:38 +0100, Chris G wrote:
£105 for a machine with 1Gb memory, 160Gb hard disk, gigabit ethernet and space for expansion seems pretty good to me.
Yes, as a company (and HP reseller) we have been selling these whenever we can get stock. The are a great little entry level server even at thrice the price. Also they have a pci-e x16 slot and are pretty quiet runners so can easily become a nice little midrange workstation.
They do however (or at least the samples I have seen) have the AMD Opteron dual core with the timing bug. I think this is probably why HP are clearing them in preparation of a G2 model or similar. It's not a major problem however as recent kernels detect and work around it and there is a patch for Windows from AMD. It may now even be fixable in firmware. Not sure how it manifests itself on Linux without the kernel detection, On Windows without the patch one of the symptoms is intermittent negative ping times.
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc...
Oh and currently they are pretty much perpetually out of stock anywhere selling them at this price :)
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Hi,
2008/5/22 Jim Rippon jim@rippon.me.uk:
These are in stock at http://uk.insight.com for £120 + VAT.
Where?? I can get this from searching: http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=HPGA057F...
at 415 GBP...
been very happy with it, but the on-board graphics had problems when I tried to install Ubuntu (Hardy) or CentOS 5 onto it hence it runs Gentoo.
Ooh, what onboard is it?
-Srdj
Hi, On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 10:14 +0100, Srdjan Todorovic wrote:
Hi,
2008/5/22 Jim Rippon jim@rippon.me.uk:
These are in stock at http://uk.insight.com for £120 + VAT.
Where?? I can get this from searching: http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=HPGA057F...
at 415 GBP...
Here is a direct link: http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=HPIA04FQ...
been very happy with it, but the on-board graphics had problems when I tried to install Ubuntu (Hardy) or CentOS 5 onto it hence it runs Gentoo.
Ooh, what onboard is it?
-Srdj
Graphics is a Matrox G200e:
<lspci>
05:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA G200e [Pilot] ServerEngines (SEP1) (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Unknown device 31fa Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 10 Memory at fb000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=16M] Memory at fdefc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] Memory at fd000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=8M] Expansion ROM at fdee0000 [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 Capabilities: [e4] Express Legacy Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [54] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask- 64bit- Queue=0/0 Enable-
</lspci>
I am sure there are things I could have done to fix it, but as it is running headless it seemed a waste of time - I also run a number of Gentoo boxes behind it, so it seemed sensible to have that running my portage rsync mirror.
Jim
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