Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
As far as ISPs are concerned I have heard good reports of F9 and ukfsn.org ought to be worth a look/supporting. Any group experience of, preference for either?
Thanks
Ian
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 22:11, IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
Don't even bother with the USB ADSL modems unless you like spending hours messing with hotplug scripts, buggy black box drivers, unstable hardware etc etc...
Get yourself a Broadband router. You shouldn't have to spend that much. Only a few things to watch on these.
A few describe themselves as Broadband routers but don't actually contain the broadband interface, they are simply a router.
Some don't handle GRE packets very well, not really an issue unless you find yourself wanting to connect to (or provide) some types of VPN (specifically the ones provided by Windows Servers) Probably not an issue for you (it was for me)
Alternatively if you have a tiny bit more spare cash, treat yourself to a Wireless Broadband Router and a PCMCIA wireless card, that way you can enjoy the garden/ company of your significant other etc etc without prying yourself from the net. After all what's the point of a laptop if it's tethered to the phone line ?
Personally I have had good performance from Linksys and Netgear kit here (Linksys finally seem to have come clean on the GPL front)
Just don't forget to set up the security properly
If you really must go for a USB modem, then The Alcatel/Thompson ones work unless they are silver (they could have fixed that now) The Sagem ones work and I have read in a forum somewhere that the BT Voyager 100 can be made to work as well (But then you never would go with BT would you ???) Generally though they are all pretty nasty things.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 12:22:04AM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 22:11, IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
Don't even bother with the USB ADSL modems unless you like spending hours messing with hotplug scripts, buggy black box drivers, unstable hardware etc etc...
I've actually not had any problems with my Frog; seems to work just fine and have less issues than I've heard of people having with their ADSL routers...
If you really must go for a USB modem, then The Alcatel/Thompson ones work unless they are silver (they could have fixed that now)
I /think/ they're supported now, BICBW.
J.
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 23:22, Jonathan McDowell wrote:
I've actually not had any problems with my Frog; seems to work just fine and have less issues than I've heard of people having with their ADSL routers...
Yup using a frog too (Ian that's a less than flattering name for the first generation of the Alcatel modems, if you see one you'll know why)
But to be honest the only reason I've kept mine is that after the pain and suffering I went through with earlier versions of SuSE to get it running I feel I deserve to get some life out of it. Admittedly it is far easer to get these things working on a recent distro.
I much prefer the routers however, The port forwarding/NAT gives you another layer of protection, Your connection is not dependant on one machine to be running and in the case of a laptop user the whole wireless thing is a lot easier to accomplish.
It's interesting to hear your (and Adam's) views and experiences with buggy routers.
i have sold/used a wide range (from the very cheapest to the quite expensive Dlink DSL-604+ we have in the office) and apart from one obviously faulty unit and a Linksys that refused to play with GRE (now fixed in firmware I believe) we have had little or no problems.
Sounds like we have been lucky so far.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 12:22:04AM +0000, Wayne Stallwood wrote:
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 22:11, IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
Don't even bother with the USB ADSL modems unless you like spending hours messing with hotplug scripts, buggy black box drivers, unstable hardware etc etc...
Get yourself a Broadband router. You shouldn't have to spend that much. Only a
Funny thing is that I used to use an Alcatel Frog on my Linux box and it was great, I recently replaced it with what was regarded as a good router (Netgear DG834G) and had lots of problems, and at one point the router was almost sent back for a refund. So usb adsl modems are not all bad :)
Ok, other thing beware of the Netgear DG834G I had problems with it crashing often needing a power cycle at the wall, after trying 4 different firmware versions I have now found a stable one but it is labelled "beta" there is another firmware been made available after this one but I am bit wary of trying it and reintroducing problems. Don't get me wrong, its great when it works, but it may take some time to get running nicely but then that seems this is the case for many of these ADSL routers.
Adam
On 21-Jul-2004 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Funny thing is that I used to use an Alcatel Frog on my Linux box and it was great, I recently replaced it with what was regarded as a good router (Netgear DG834G) and had lots of problems, and at one point the router was almost sent back for a refund. So usb adsl modems are not all bad :)
Your experiences with a Netgear DG834 are the opposite of mine. I plugged mine in, set it up, and it's been running ever since without trouble.
I'm not sure about the 'G' on the end and I'm not inclined to crawl around on the floor at the moment to find out but it's not a wireless one.
Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 08:47:19AM +0100, bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk wrote:
On 21-Jul-2004 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Funny thing is that I used to use an Alcatel Frog on my Linux box and it was great, I recently replaced it with what was regarded as a good router (Netgear DG834G) and had lots of problems, and at one point the router was almost sent back for a refund. So usb adsl modems are not all bad :)
Your experiences with a Netgear DG834 are the opposite of mine. I plugged mine in, set it up, and it's been running ever since without trouble.
I'm not sure about the 'G' on the end and I'm not inclined to crawl around on the floor at the moment to find out but it's not a wireless one.
The G means it is wireless, which is what seems to have caused the most problems. Either way, there are plenty of people who have problems with these routers which are reported in many online forums, and if you have problems then these routers can be a pain to get working nicely,although since I got mine working it has been rock solid (although I just tried to use the web interface to check the uptime and that page won't load) it just took a while to get it working stably which was annoying at the time as the router was almost totally useless while I was having these problems.
Adam
On 22-Jul-2004 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
The G means it is wireless, which is what seems to have caused the most problems. Either way, there are plenty of people who have problems with these routers which are reported in many online forums,
Yes I have seen some post along those lines. I must admit I don't understand it. A router surely is not affected by outside infuences such as operating systems so why, if some work without problems, do others give trouble?
and if you have problems then these routers can be a pain to get working nicely,although since I got mine working it has been rock solid (although I just tried to use the web interface to check the uptime and that page won't load)
I just tried that on mine and it loaded. Uptime about 50 days, which is the time since the last power failure :-) (the district not the router), firmware version 1.01.
Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 11:46:00AM +0100, bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk wrote:
On 22-Jul-2004 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
The G means it is wireless, which is what seems to have caused the most problems. Either way, there are plenty of people who have problems with these routers which are reported in many online forums,
Yes I have seen some post along those lines. I must admit I don't understand it. A router surely is not affected by outside infuences such as operating systems so why, if some work without problems, do others give trouble?
Uh, I don't know if you know this but the Netgear DG834(G) does have problems such as operating system, it actually runs Linux. Even on high end routers and switches it is fairly normal to have to upgrade firmware (which is essentialy an OS and software for the device) to fix bugs and security holes.
If you visit try visiting the url http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug in a web browser you will then be able to telnet to the DG834(G) and have a poke around, it is a bit of a minimal system though, running Busybox as the shell. Indeed if you want to make your own firmware then you could visit http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101238.asp and download the source code for the GPL bits of the router.
Adam
On 22-Jul-2004 adam@thebowery.co.uk wrote:
Uh, I don't know if you know this but the Netgear DG834(G) does have problems such as operating system, it actually runs Linux. Even on high end routers and switches it is fairly normal to have to upgrade firmware (which is essentialy an OS and software for the device) to fix bugs and security holes.
If you visit try visiting the url http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug in a web browser you will then be able to telnet to the DG834(G) and have a poke around, it is a bit of a minimal system though, running Busybox as the shell. Indeed if you want to make your own firmware then you could visit http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101238.asp and download the source code for the GPL bits of the router.
I should have made myself clearer. I meant outside OSs running on the computers to which the router is connected.
What I was trying to say is that if a number of people have a Netgear DG834 and the same firmware, say 1.01, I don't see why some of them should have problems with it and not others which is what appears to happen.
Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 12:43:37PM +0100, bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk wrote:
What I was trying to say is that if a number of people have a Netgear DG834 and the same firmware, say 1.01, I don't see why some of them should have problems with it and not others which is what appears to happen.
I would put it down to them having different ISPs (who could be using different settings) being on different exchanges (which have different ADSL kit) having different wireless cards which don't seem to be so much of a standard as people think. Different patterns of usage, etc. etc. and all this boils down to some people will trigger bugs that others won't see.
Lots of problems with the DG834G seemed to be combinations of having ESSID turned on or off, using different types of encryption on the wireless etc. (some people were reporting problems that 1 wireless card would consistantly kill the router but another card the same would work fine, another was people found that running Windows XP as a wireless network client would lock the router up but the same machine running Windows 2000 or Linux would be fine) but there are so many ways to configure the router that it is easy for 2 people with exactly indentical equipment to have problems just from changing 1 option a bit like all software and hardware combos really.
Adam
On 2004-07-21 23:11:42 +0100 IanBell ian@redtommo.com wrote:
[...] Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
Probably a combined ADSL device and network switch, but I've not heard of a consistently good make. I've a Belkin which crashes in hot weather because some idiot decided that the base is a good place for vents and the top should be unbroken thick plastic. I run it upside-down now, which helps, but the vents are a bit small. It says "designed in California" so I'll be trying to avoid other Californian designs now. ;-)
As far as ISPs are concerned I have heard good reports of F9 and ukfsn.org ought to be worth a look/supporting. Any group experience of, preference for either?
I use ukfsn dialup, which has worked well so far. They also fund AFFS grants (call for applications should appear as soon as the secretary returns AIUI).
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 23:11, IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
I would recommend a router+switch too. Having a separate piece of hardware means you have more flexibility when you change your computer OS, dualboot, have friends come round with machines, etc.
I use a SpeedTouch 510v4 http://www.speedtouchdsl.com/prod510.htm . I wouldn't rave over it. The config can be a bit cumbersome, especially the firewall rules. But it does the job. My main problem is that I keep losing them to lightning, I'm now on my fourth.
-- Martijn
On 21-Jul-2004 IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
As far as ISPs are concerned I have heard good reports of F9 and ukfsn.org ought to be worth a look/supporting. Any group experience of, preference for either?
I've been with PlusNet since the beginning of the year and haven't had any problems. I'm on the slightly cheaper thingy at about �19.00 per month which means I can't use P2P and have to use PlusNet's own newsgroups. No complaints.
Barry Samuels http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk The Unofficial Guide to Great Britain
On Thursday 22 July 2004 07:51, bjsamuels@beenthere-donethat.org.uk wrote:
I've been with PlusNet since the beginning of the year and haven't had any problems. I'm on the slightly cheaper thingy at about £19.00 per month which means I can't use P2P and have to use PlusNet's own newsgroups. No complaints.
Also on PlusNet (on the higher tariff though) Also very happy with their service (as I have often posted), The referral bonus scheme is pretty good, has got my monthly fee down by about £5 a month.
Not sure why they maintain the both the PlusNet and the F9 portal, is there any difference in the services offered.
Did you know that PlusNet/F9/free-online.net are all subsidaries of Insight (the company that sends those little computer parts and consumables catalogues to most companies)
Wayne Stallwood wrote:
Also on PlusNet (on the higher tariff though) Also very happy with their
service (as I have often posted),
ditto, no complaints
Not sure why they maintain the both the PlusNet and the F9 portal, is there any difference in the services offered.
Did you know that PlusNet/F9/free-online.net are all subsidaries of Insight (the company that sends those little computer parts and consumables catalogues to most companies)
Well you learn something new every day!
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:11:42 +0100, you wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
Speedtouch 510 - router, 4 port switch and ADSL modem all in one small box. If it died, I'd buy the same again.
Easy ro set up. Never yet crashed although its been taken down by power failures and once in a thunderstorm. I run a variety of boxes using DHCP and one SuSE Linux server with a ststic IP address. Just use the web interface to tell the router the IP address of the default server and away you go. http://samphire.demon.co.uk/ This server has PHP, MySQL and other tutorials on it.
The DHCP boxes just work without any further configuration.
You can do some sophisticated firewall functions too but so far I've stuck with the defaults.
I use Demon Internet mainly for historical reasons. They are not the cheapest but there is good on-line network status information and I've had few problems. Their network seens to hold up well at busy times. For example streaming audio from the BBC always seems to work.
Neil.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 07:41:58AM +0100, C. Neil Bauers wrote:
Speedtouch 510 - router, 4 port switch and ADSL modem all in one small box. If it died, I'd buy the same again.
I love mine too.
server and away you go. http://samphire.demon.co.uk/ This server has PHP, MySQL and other tutorials on it. You can do some sophisticated firewall functions too but so far I've stuck with the defaults.
Do you have trouble accessing "samphire.demon.co.uk" from inside your network? My setup just doesn't seem to understand how to route from the inside to the inside. Any tips?
Thanks, Tim.
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:32:54 +0100, you wrote:
[snip]
Do you have trouble accessing "samphire.demon.co.uk" from inside your network? My setup just doesn't seem to understand how to route from the inside to the inside. Any tips?
Now you mention it, I do but that is because the box isn't called samphire inside the LAN. It's called "kitchen" because that's where it lives so "kitchen.demon.co.uk" is fine.
Neil.
Thanks, Tim.
main@lists.alug.org.uk http://www.alug.org.uk/ http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main Unsubscribe? See message headers or the web site above!
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 03:20:44PM +0100, C. Neil Bauers wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:32:54 +0100, you wrote: [snip]
Do you have trouble accessing "samphire.demon.co.uk" from inside your network? My setup just doesn't seem to understand how to route from the inside to the inside. Any tips?
Now you mention it, I do but that is because the box isn't called samphire inside the LAN. It's called "kitchen" because that's where it lives so "kitchen.demon.co.uk" is fine.
While I can ping and traceroute my external IP, the Speedtouch does not appear to be reflecting my connections to the default server.
Since I have everything going through a default server anyway, I've just remembered I can use virtual ethernet interfaces. By configuring my internal box to also have my external IP, it can services those requests without bothering the Speedtouch.
ifconfig eth1:1 12.34.56.78 netmask 255.255.255.255
Problem solved, assuming eth1 and 12.34.56.78 are right for your setup!
Thanks for listening :-)
Tim.
IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
We've tried/used pretty well all of them. IMO, the best by miles are the Linksys boxes.
They do cable modems/routers (with 5 VPN tunnels), cable modems/routers (with VPN pass-through), wireless cable modems/routers (with 5 VPN tunnels) and VPN routers (with lots of VPN tunnels).
Cheers, Laurie.
* On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 11:11:42PM +0100, IanBell wrote:
Broadband seems finaly to have arrived at my small coastal village. I have a Dell laptop with an Ethernet port and no network. Assuming I go for a wires only package, what is the most suitable hardware?
I think that depends on your needs & budget. I use an Alcatel (now Thompson) SpeedTouch USB modem, because it lets me have far more control over the gateway machine than a router would allow. That runs quite happily under Slackware 10.0 (and ran for almost two years on Slackware 8.0 (with security updates, of course)).
The only thing that I had to look out for was a flakey USB subsystem on the VIA motherboards. I got around that by writing a combination of scripts that test whether the Internet connection is working and, if not, kills power to the USB ports for 30 seconds and re-establishes the connection. If you want a copy, let me know.
As far as ISPs are concerned I have heard good reports of F9 and ukfsn.org ought to be worth a look/supporting. Any group experience of, preference for either?
I've never used F9, but UKFSN were good when I used them (briefly) for dial-up access (almost when they first started). I currently use Demon (it started as a discounted staff account when I first got it and served me well enough that I kept it when I left (sadly, no longer discounted, though)).
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adam＠thebowery.co.uk -
Ben Francis -
bjsamuels＠beenthere-donethat.org.uk -
C. Neil Bauers -
IanBell -
Jonathan McDowell -
Laurie Brown -
Martijn Koster -
MJ Ray -
Simon Williams -
Tim Green -
Wayne Stallwood