So there's rather a lot of these BT Home Hubs around me. They are hopping all over the 2.4GHz band as they fail to avoid interfering with each other and every other router in the area. In short, it's messing up my wifi and any time I (or any other non-BT neighbour) move to a quieter channel, it starts the madness again as the BT hubs shuffle around - the Android phones cope most of the time, but the Linux laptops (one rtl8723ae, one I forget what) don't like it very much. Is there anything I can do (module options or tool configs) to discourage the laptops from disassociating when there's a burst of noise? The good folk on IRC suggest getting a 5GHz band (802.11n) access point but I fear any relief will be temporary as the BT hubs get upgraded to similarly-misbehaving 5GHz kit. Or is it more resilient? Is powerline networking worth a try? Has anyone got tips or things available locally that they'd recommend? I hope it's just ethernet as far as Linux is concerned. Is there another option short of lead-lining my walls which I'm missing? Failing that, I'll wire up yet another house with ethernet cables... Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
On 09/07/13 19:04, MJ Ray wrote:
Is there another option short of lead-lining my walls which I'm missing?
Failing that, I'll wire up yet another house with ethernet cables...
If your electronic equipment is being interfered with by unwanted outside RF signals, someone from the Amateur Radio fraternity will be able to supply details of whom to contact. I did know, but a) my knowledge is probably out of date b) I've forgotten the organisation anyway c) I understand it's always been difficult to gain their interest... -- Tony http://www.girolle.co.uk/
Newer routers can run mixed 802.11 b/g/n which is probably the best current domestic solution going, that would likely improve your situation if you have wireless clients that support it. Switching to an 802.11n router would be good for you if your neighbours follow suite. 5Ghz has a harder time penetrating walls et al (shorter distance, higher speed) Power over Ethernet adapters work pretty well. You should be able to easily find some with good reviews on line for not that much money. Unless your house has really old crappy wiring you can get good speed too (50Mbps for example is plenty for most home networks if you are used to wireless speeds, higher speeds often require pricier more lavish units). Sadly I have no advice regarding how to tame your Linux wifi client adapters though, only the alternative solutions. Cheers, James.
Another advantage of 5GHz: more channels! If you have an Android device then I can recommend the free app inSSIDer which can help you map the 13 channels around 2.4GHz and the dozens and dozens around 5GHz. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.metageek Tim. On 9 July 2013 19:42, James Bensley <jwbensley@gmail.com> wrote:
Newer routers can run mixed 802.11 b/g/n which is probably the best current domestic solution going, that would likely improve your situation if you have wireless clients that support it. Switching to an 802.11n router would be good for you if your neighbours follow suite. 5Ghz has a harder time penetrating walls et al (shorter distance, higher speed)
Power over Ethernet adapters work pretty well. You should be able to easily find some with good reviews on line for not that much money. Unless your house has really old crappy wiring you can get good speed too (50Mbps for example is plenty for most home networks if you are used to wireless speeds, higher speeds often require pricier more lavish units).
Sadly I have no advice regarding how to tame your Linux wifi client adapters though, only the alternative solutions.
Cheers, James.
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On 09/07/13 20:09, Tim Green wrote:
Another advantage of 5GHz: more channels! If you have an Android device then I can recommend the free app inSSIDer which can help you map the 13 channels around 2.4GHz and the dozens and dozens around 5GHz. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.metageek
The phones are Android (well CM10) but I don't use Google and I can't see inSSIDer on f-droid. I've this app https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=net.wigle.wigleandroid but I'm not sure whether it doesn't do 5GHz or there's no 5GHz kit near me yet. I rather missed that there were more channels in 5GHz, so thanks for pointing that out. I got confused by there only being two 802.11n channels possible in 2.4GHz (if I've read it correctly). At 5GHz, there are 19 or 24 channels, depending on whether the ones labelled "Short Range Devices" are useful. In theory, optimum channel selection should be a four-colour map-colouring problem (is that right?), so 19 channels should be plenty even with overlapping. It looks like Dynamic Frequency Selection may be a useful advantage too. Now I'm just rather surprised that there seems to be some "n" access points on sale that only do 2.4GHz, but I'll try to avoid them. Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
On Tue, Jul 09, 2013 at 07:04:29PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
The good folk on IRC suggest getting a 5GHz band (802.11n) access point but I fear any relief will be temporary as the BT hubs get upgraded to similarly-misbehaving 5GHz kit. Or is it more resilient?
As I suggested on irc moving to 5Ghz is sensible, I've been using it for something like 6 or 7 years now with zero problems. Even from here I can see about 10 2.4Ghz access points and only 1 5Ghz access point. The other thing of note is that lots of other devices share 2.4Ghz (wireless baby monitors, remote telly senders etc. etc.) which is what prompted me to go to 5Ghz in the first place when a neighbour got a baby monitor that splatted all over 2.4Ghz. Just because you can see lots of access points out there in 2.4Ghz doesn't mean that they are causing the problems you're experiencing. Adam
On 9 July 2013 19:04, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
Is there anything I can do (module options or tool configs) to discourage the laptops from disassociating when there's a burst of noise?
Forgot to mention, have a look at some slide from a talk I gave on-line here; http://null.53bits.co.uk/index.php?page=improving-home-broadband Jump to slide 29, there maybe some relevant information for you. Cheers, James.
On 09/07/13 19:04, MJ Ray wrote:
So there's rather a lot of these BT Home Hubs around me. They are hopping all over the 2.4GHz band as they fail to avoid interfering with each other and every other router in the area. In short, it's messing up my wifi and any time I (or any other non-BT neighbour) move to a quieter channel, it starts the madness again as the BT hubs shuffle around - the Android phones cope most of the time, but the Linux laptops (one rtl8723ae, one I forget what) don't like it very much. Is there anything I can do (module options or tool configs) to discourage the laptops from disassociating when there's a burst of noise?
The good folk on IRC suggest getting a 5GHz band (802.11n) access point but I fear any relief will be temporary as the BT hubs get upgraded to similarly-misbehaving 5GHz kit. Or is it more resilient?
Is powerline networking worth a try? Has anyone got tips or things available locally that they'd recommend? I hope it's just ethernet as far as Linux is concerned.
Is there another option short of lead-lining my walls which I'm missing?
Failing that, I'll wire up yet another house with ethernet cables...
Thanks, IME, as long as you're broadcasting your SSID and your devices are set to auto-detect the channel number rather than being on a fixed channel, I've not had any problems when I've changed channel.
I've not tried the 5GHZ channel myself, but as long as all your kit supports it (802.11n), then I can't see you've got anything to loose. It gives you some more channels to try and they may be less congested and less prone to interference. I tend to try to set my channel manually on the router, and let all the clients follow it. I disconnect a laptop from the network then use iwlist WIRELESSDEVICENAME scanning to generate a list of all the nearby wireless networks. I then try to work out which channel is clearest for me. I've got lots of home hubs round me all on channel 1, and a few on channel 6, so I've gone up near the top. As for config I've also used the gui-tool wifi-radar to do the same sort of thing. You mention fearing the 5GHz relief will be temporary. Why not try it and see? If it works for a year or two, then take that year or two, then re-examine your options. There may be a new flavour of 802.11 by then, or some super-duper new technology. I don't think there's a good reason not to try it, unless it's because you'd rather do something else. The alternatives? You can try powerline. Never tried it myself as I'm put off by the cost. Alternatively, you could run some cables round your house. The problem with both the above is: do you want to have your laptops plugged in to the network whilst you're using them? Perhaps that's not an issue, pehaps it is. But what about other devices like android phones - you can't plug them in to the network - so you're going to have some sort of Wifi, so why not try the wifi route first? You could try a faraday cage round your external walls! Cheaper than lead lining! But you won't be able to use your Wifi outside! HTH Steve
On 10/07/13 09:25, steve-ALUG@hst.me.uk wrote:
I then try to work out which channel is clearest for me. I've got lots of home hubs round me all on channel 1, and a few on channel 6, so I've gone up near the top.
Yeah, it doesn't matter here, as in addition to mine, there seem to be at least a TP-Link, a ZyXEL and an unknown that remain fixed on channels 1, 6 and 9(!), and then at least 4 home hubs that jump around the channels failing to find interference-free homes. The degradation to unusuable seems to have been triggered by installation of a fourth home hub - as they only ever seem to use 1/6/11, Anyway, I suspect there is no clear channel.
I've also used the gui-tool wifi-radar to do the same sort of thing.
Thanks for the tip - wifi-radar seems to show more in the screen space than the wicd or network-manager GUIs, which makes it easier to see what's going on. It seems almost all of the channel-hoppers are on 11 at the moment, which is where mine was.
The alternatives? You can try powerline. Never tried it myself as I'm put off by the cost. [...]
Powerline devices look like they have a similar price range to 5GHz wifi, but it's probably just my lack of knowledge about both making it look like that.
The problem with both the above is: do you want to have your laptops plugged in to the network whilst you're using them? Perhaps that's not an issue, pehaps it is. But what about other devices like android phones - you can't plug them in to the network - so you're going to have some sort of Wifi, so why not try the wifi route first?
Well, it's annoying to have a wire, but less annoying than dropped connections. If all else sucks, the phones can use the mobile network. Checking the "iwlist wlan0 freq" output and the "pre-launch white paper" for one of the laptops and one of the phones, it looks like they do 802.11n but not 5GHz. So it's either kitting out the laptops with dongles, or I'll go for the powerline or cabling ideas after all. Thanks everyone, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
On 10/07/13 11:35, MJ Ray wrote:
Yeah, it doesn't matter here, as in addition to mine, there seem to be at least a TP-Link, a ZyXEL and an unknown that remain fixed on channels 1, 6 and 9(!), and then at least 4 home hubs that jump around the channels failing to find interference-free homes. The degradation to unusuable seems to have been triggered by installation of a fourth home hub - as they only ever seem to use 1/6/11,
Anyway, I suspect there is no clear channel.
From what you say, people are using 1, 6, 9 and 11. Have you tried 13 assuming your router can do it? Nothing can be higher than it to interfere with it and it's a bit away from 11 so may be OK. Good luck, whatever you decide. Steve
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 7:04 PM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
Is powerline networking worth a try? Has anyone got tips or things available locally that they'd recommend? I hope it's just ethernet as far as Linux is concerned. ... MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
I've been using powerline for almost five years now. Prices for a pair of units vary. I used powerline as i couldn't be bothered to pay for a wifi card. I've had the pc in most rooms now and down the garden - no problems and i think faster than wifi. If you know someone with BT vision who's giving up the service then they may give you a free pair of units. james
participants (7)
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Adam Bower -
Anthony Anson -
James Bensley -
James Freer -
MJ Ray -
steve-ALUG＠hst.me.uk -
Tim Green