Hi all,
Hope every one has had a merry xmas.
Does any one know if this[1] 1.5Tb USB disk from Maplins will work on an ubuntu 9.10 machine? If not how could I make it work?
I bought a similar one last year and it was not recognised by the PC so I ended up removing the HDD and installing it as an internal drive.
Now they're about £30 cheaper than last year and I still need a decent size external drive for backup.
I've been to the shop to ask - they don't know and they won't let me try it and return if it doesn't work.
I've emailed Maplins tech help - no reply. I've emailed Verbaitum's tech help - no reply.
So I thought I'd ask here before I lay out my cash on something else that may not work as intended.
TIA Nev
2009/12/30 nev young nev@nevilley.demon.co.uk:
Hi all,
Hope every one has had a merry xmas.
Yes very good thanks!
Does any one know if this[1] 1.5Tb USB disk from Maplins will work on an ubuntu 9.10 machine? If not how could I make it work?
I bought a similar one last year and it was not recognised by the PC so I ended up removing the HDD and installing it as an internal drive.
I have never heard of a drive not working in Linux but working in Windows or Mac, that sounds crazy to me? This drive should work just fine. If it doesn't work straight out of the box just format the volume and start over.
It says on the bottom of that page this drive is useable buy Windows so it may come pre-formatted as an NTFS or FAT32 volume which is fully supported in Ubuntu. Also it said it can be used by Mac OS X so that means it could be used for HFS/+ or ext3 which again are both fully supported buy Linux (Well HFS/+ not so stable but obviously ext3 is).
Ultimately you can bet your bottom dollar it will come pre-formatted as either an NTFS or FAT32 volume as thats the only file system type supported on all the versions of Mac and Windows listed on the Maplins page so it should work fine with Ubuntu.
As I said I have never heard of a drive not being compatible from a virtual point of view only a physical point of view i.e. wrong connect type for a motherboard? (Although in this case its an external USB drive so all you need is a single USB socket?). Irrelevant of how the hard drive comes pre-formatted you can reformat it to what ever you want!
I bought a similar one last year and it was not recognised by the PC so I ended up removing the HDD and installing it as an internal drive.
Did you try the drive in windows first? I have had an external drive (seagate i believe) before that gave problems mounting in linux if it had previously been mounted in windows and then uncleanly removed. This problem was fixed by rebooting into windows and faffing around to 'safely remove hardware' or some such.
Ricky
2009/12/30 Ricky Bruce rickybruce@gmail.com:
I have had an external drive (seagate i believe) before that gave problems mounting in linux if it had previously been mounted in windows and then uncleanly removed.
Sometime an NTFS drive that has been accessed by Windows can be locked into a read only mode but you can force a read/write session to be established at the time of mounting the drive (see man mount) and also I have had problems mounting a Windows drive taken out of a Windows machine that had gone into hibernation and not been turned on since so the "sleep state" (Dump of the RAM I guess?) was in the root of the drive and simply needed deleting for the drive to become accessible.
HTH.
James Bensley wrote:
2009/12/30 Ricky Bruce rickybruce@gmail.com:
I have had an external drive (seagate i believe) before that gave problems mounting in linux if it had previously been mounted in windows and then uncleanly removed.
Sometime an NTFS drive that has been accessed by Windows can be locked into a read only mode but you can force a read/write session to be established at the time of mounting the drive (see man mount) and also I have had problems mounting a Windows drive taken out of a Windows machine that had gone into hibernation and not been turned on since so the "sleep state" (Dump of the RAM I guess?) was in the root of the drive and simply needed deleting for the drive to become accessible.
HTH.
The drive (I got last year) worked perfectly under windows XP. It was formatted NTFS.
The problem under linux was I could not mount it as it did not appear as a drive. Other drives, such as an older USB external drive and USB memory sticks etc, appear as an icon on the desktop which I can then mount. This did nothing at all, apart from create an entry in, I think, /dev/usb. However I couldn't do anything with it.
At £90 a go I am reluctant to risk it on the off chance it will work. Wouldn't be so bad if I could return it if it doesn't work but I get the impression the shop would say "It says on the box it only works with windows or mac".
Well if you really aren't sure then don't buy it, I find it very hard to believe you can't get an NTFS drive to work under Linux that was working under windows, not you personally but I mean in general, if it works in Windows it should work in Linux its just a case of finding out how to make it work. I would start by formatting it as NTFS in Linux then using it in Windows and not the other way around, I have never had a problem this way round?
In regards to returning the product I think they are lawfully obliged under the Distance selling Regulations? I have sent stuff back to OverClockers before within the first 7 days of purchase and they simply test the product and to make sure its OK and then refund me the full amount (obviously I had to pay to send the product pack though).
Also you could try Scan Computers if you haven't already?
http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-Hardware/All/Hard-Drives-Ext/750GB-2000G...
HTH
James Bensley wrote:
Well if you really aren't sure then don't buy it, I find it very hard to believe you can't get an NTFS drive to work under Linux that was working under windows, not you personally but I mean in general, if it works in Windows it should work in Linux its just a case of finding out how to make it work. I would start by formatting it as NTFS in Linux then using it in Windows and not the other way around, I have never had a problem this way round?
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:00:34PM +0000, nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Was there anything in the output of the kernel ring buffer (i.e. running the command dmesg?) Without that it's pretty hard to diagnose any specifics of why it wasn't working.
Adam
Adam Bower wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:00:34PM +0000, nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
Was there anything in the output of the kernel ring buffer (i.e. running the command dmesg?) Without that it's pretty hard to diagnose any specifics of why it wasn't working.
Ah now this feels like the right direction. I would like to learn more about diagnosing problems, what logs there are and how to read them.
connecting the case on it's own gave : Dec 31 08:09:05 deadalus2 kernel: [254434.169201] usb 1-6: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 20 Dec 31 08:09:05 deadalus2 kernel: [254434.235542] usb 1-6: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
disconnecting gave: Dec 31 08:10:32 deadalus2 kernel: [254477.713432] usb 1-6: USB disconnect, address 20
I would have to remove the HDD from the PC and put it back into the external case in order to try it fully. Or take the chance and buy the new one[2].
I'll have to get back to you. Hopefully before I return to work[1] in the new year.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 08:21:12AM +0000, nev young wrote:
Adam Bower wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 08:00:34PM +0000, nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
Was there anything in the output of the kernel ring buffer (i.e. running the command dmesg?) Without that it's pretty hard to diagnose any specifics of why it wasn't working.
Ah now this feels like the right direction. I would like to learn more about diagnosing problems, what logs there are and how to read them.
connecting the case on it's own gave : Dec 31 08:09:05 deadalus2 kernel: [254434.169201] usb 1-6: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 20 Dec 31 08:09:05 deadalus2 kernel: [254434.235542] usb 1-6: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
disconnecting gave: Dec 31 08:10:32 deadalus2 kernel: [254477.713432] usb 1-6: USB disconnect, address 20
So the device is seen in at least some manner by the kernel. What does "lsusb" say when it's plugged in?
J.
nev young wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
Well if you really aren't sure then don't buy it, I find it very hard to believe you can't get an NTFS drive to work under Linux that was working under windows, not you personally but I mean in general, if it works in Windows it should work in Linux its just a case of finding out how to make it work. I would start by formatting it as NTFS in Linux then using it in Windows and not the other way around, I have never had a problem this way round?
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
It may simply be that your Linux distro does not have NTFS support installed. have you checked this?
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Not surprising because that was probably FAT rather than NTFS.
Cheers
ian
Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
nev young wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
Well if you really aren't sure then don't buy it, I find it very hard to believe you can't get an NTFS drive to work under Linux that was working under windows, not you personally but I mean in general, if it works in Windows it should work in Linux its just a case of finding out how to make it work. I would start by formatting it as NTFS in Linux then using it in Windows and not the other way around, I have never had a problem this way round?
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
It may simply be that your Linux distro does not have NTFS support installed. have you checked this?
I have no problem mounting NTFS formatted disk drives using my older USB external drive case.
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Not surprising because that was probably FAT rather than NTFS.
It wasn't anything when I bought it just an empty case. The 250Gb drive currently in there is EXT3.
There is clearly something different between the two external drive cases.
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:35:26PM +0000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
It may simply be that your Linux distro does not have NTFS support installed. have you checked this?
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Not surprising because that was probably FAT rather than NTFS.
No, really, you're missing nev's point. What filesystem is on the drive is irrelevant if the raw devices nodes aren't even created. Getting /dev/sdd and /dev/sdd1 created when the device is plugged in is purely about Linux recognising that there's a new block device present on the SCSI subsystem and then being able to read the partition table correctly. Filesystem doesn't come into it until you actually try to mount the device.
J.
Jonathan McDowell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:35:26PM +0000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
It may simply be that your Linux distro does not have NTFS support installed. have you checked this?
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Not surprising because that was probably FAT rather than NTFS.
No, really, you're missing nev's point. What filesystem is on the drive is irrelevant if the raw devices nodes aren't even created. Getting /dev/sdd and /dev/sdd1 created when the device is plugged in is purely about Linux recognising that there's a new block device present on the SCSI subsystem and then being able to read the partition table correctly. Filesystem doesn't come into it until you actually try to mount the device.
Right. Forget everything !!! My wife went and got me one as a late xmas pressie! :-)
I plugged it in and it just worked. OK it comes as FAT32 but happily re-formats to ext3
If the case for the one I bought last year ever gets used is no longer an issue. Thanks for those who have spent time thinking about it and replying.
However, I wish to learn ! ==========================
As I see it when I connect the device: something detects the new hardware and creates the /dev/usb nodes something then assigns these as a device something assigns the device as a disk something mounts it. there has to be a device driver in there somewhere.
Can any one point me to a good reference so I can learn how it all hangs together?
It all seemed so much simpler back in the early 1980s when I was writing device drivers for a living. Have I forgotten everything I once knew or has it actually become much more complex?
nev
On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 16:27 +0000, nev young wrote:
Jonathan McDowell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:35:26PM +0000, Ian Thompson-Bell wrote:
nev young wrote:
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
It may simply be that your Linux distro does not have NTFS support installed. have you checked this?
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
Not surprising because that was probably FAT rather than NTFS.
No, really, you're missing nev's point. What filesystem is on the drive is irrelevant if the raw devices nodes aren't even created. Getting /dev/sdd and /dev/sdd1 created when the device is plugged in is purely about Linux recognising that there's a new block device present on the SCSI subsystem and then being able to read the partition table correctly. Filesystem doesn't come into it until you actually try to mount the device.
Right. Forget everything !!! My wife went and got me one as a late xmas pressie! :-)
I plugged it in and it just worked. OK it comes as FAT32 but happily re-formats to ext3
If the case for the one I bought last year ever gets used is no longer an issue. Thanks for those who have spent time thinking about it and replying.
That is what I would have expected was the most likely outcome. On the other hand I have had an experience with a temperamental USB disk which failed to work correctly not only on Linux but on my satellite STB which was what I bought it for in the first place.
Sometimes when plugging it into a Linux PC the disk light would show the disk busy for ages (several minutes) but at that point the filesystem was not mounted (though maybe a mount attempt was in progress) and this was way more activity than should have been required to do such things as reading the partition table and basic filesystem metadata.
With the STB the STB software would complain that the disk was not ready when it was powered and connected and nothing had been changed since it had last worked.
I returned it but when tested they said it worked fine on their PC and on another STB, though of course I don't know if it was the same STB as I had.
I did read about a "last sector bug" where some drives would report themselves one sector bigger than they actually were thus causing confusion when the OS tries to read the last sector and the drive returns the error code for "sector does not exist" when the drive had previously reported that as within the possible range of sectors and, from what I remember, the suggestion was that Linux was affected by this bug but windows was not though this was all some time ago and I still don't know if this was the problem or not.
If anyone is interested I could dig out the model numbers, though this was not a recent purchase and may well have been superceded.
However, I wish to learn !
As I see it when I connect the device: something detects the new hardware and creates the /dev/usb nodes something then assigns these as a device something assigns the device as a disk something mounts it. there has to be a device driver in there somewhere.
Can any one point me to a good reference so I can learn how it all hangs together?
I can't recommend anything at the moment though perhaps I should find out more and I am having some USB trouble at the moment. If I do I'll let you know.
Regards, Steve.
2009/12/30 nev young nev@nevilley.demon.co.uk:
James Bensley wrote:
Well if you really aren't sure then don't buy it, I find it very hard to believe you can't get an NTFS drive to work under Linux that was working under windows, not you personally but I mean in general, if it works in Windows it should work in Linux its just a case of finding out how to make it work. I would start by formatting it as NTFS in Linux then using it in Windows and not the other way around, I have never had a problem this way round?
You're missing the point. Linux doesn't recognise it at all. I can't format a drive if the system can't see it.
Unlike my older USB external drive that creates a device /dev/sdd1 on the desktop which I can then mount.
-- nev
Not that it is any consolation but i have had similar with an expensive usb drive, nice fancy pen type with a laser light on it which was useful when i was teaching. Works fine in win98, winxp but no recognition in any linux distro. Of course all the cheapo one's work i've found - it was the only thing in linux i've found that won't work. I bought two of them... money wasted!
It has a different chip in it, it would seem as the same manufacturer does quite a range and another model i have works fine.
james
2009/12/30 nev young nev@nevilley.demon.co.uk
At £90 a go I am reluctant to risk it on the off chance it will work. Wouldn't be so bad if I could return it if it doesn't work but I get the impression the shop would say "It says on the box it only works with windows or mac".
Have you thought about getting a NAS? They are pretty cheap, and will probably be quicker than USB, too.
e.g. Google suggests that http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/18/review_storage_network_wd_my_book_wo... is now available from £113.98 which although a bit more than the £90 you suggest will be more flexible. I can't recommend a specific device, that was just the first one that turned up on a quick search.
Greg
Greg Thomas wrote:
2009/12/30 nev young nev@nevilley.demon.co.uk
At £90 a go I am reluctant to risk it on the off chance it will work. Wouldn't be so bad if I could return it if it doesn't work but I get the impression the shop would say "It says on the box it only works with windows or mac".
Have you thought about getting a NAS? They are pretty cheap, and will probably be quicker than USB, too.
Well I use the PC as a NAS and it is that I wish to back up. It would feel wrong somehow to backup a NAS onto another NAS.
nev young wrote:
James Bensley wrote:
2009/12/30 Ricky Bruce rickybruce@gmail.com:
I have had an external drive (seagate i believe) before that gave problems mounting in linux if it had previously been mounted in windows and then uncleanly removed.
Sometime an NTFS drive that has been accessed by Windows can be locked into a read only mode but you can force a read/write session to be established at the time of mounting the drive (see man mount) and also I have had problems mounting a Windows drive taken out of a Windows machine that had gone into hibernation and not been turned on since so the "sleep state" (Dump of the RAM I guess?) was in the root of the drive and simply needed deleting for the drive to become accessible.
HTH.
The drive (I got last year) worked perfectly under windows XP. It was formatted NTFS.
The problem under linux was I could not mount it as it did not appear as a drive. Other drives, such as an older USB external drive and USB memory sticks etc, appear as an icon on the desktop which I can then mount. This did nothing at all, apart from create an entry in, I think, /dev/usb. However I couldn't do anything with it.
At £90 a go I am reluctant to risk it on the off chance it will work. Wouldn't be so bad if I could return it if it doesn't work but I get the impression the shop would say "It says on the box it only works with windows or mac".
Hi Nev - I got a Buffalo 500GB external (USB) drive (IIRC) from Anglian Internet around a year ago. This cost about £50.
It worked straight out of the box on the big Debian box, and works on the Eee (of which more in another thread).
NTFS was loaded, and it's now ext3.
Even though I formatted it, it still works...
-
Adam Bower -
Anthony Anson -
Greg Thomas -
Ian Thompson-Bell -
James Bensley -
James Freer -
Jonathan McDowell -
nev young -
Ricky Bruce -
Steve Fosdick