Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question
David Freeman <david_freeman@rocketmail.com> writes:
BT has the technologie and ability to role out ADSL to everyone, except it costs so much to do. OFTEL wont let us loss lead the excersise to allow us to get lots of penetration into the market. [...]
I don't think you should use "us" here. You are not allowed to speak on the behemoth's behalf. My opinion is that BT is solely interested in screwing as much money as possible out of the current technologies (eg ISDN) before having to discount them when they introduce the superior DSL systems. If BT had our interests at heart, they would be planning to do residential DSL through the normal connectors, which I think is now possible, and wouldn't require the engineer to come and rip holes in my wall again.
Find a place with an always on connection (i.e. UEA) and then put a 802.11b base station with highpower antenna up on the roof, directed at [...]
What prices are wireless networking equipment now? Is it getting to the point where sharing a single higher speed connection among a street is an economic reality? How would the service provider view this? Shouldn't we just network ourselves anyway and sod the telcos? I seem to recall that some American towns have taken this route. -- MJR
Just to add to the thread, I'm using ISDN (Home Highway) with Demon's unlimited access dialup account and BT's 24x7 surftime product. Works out as about 55GBP/month for the BT part plus another 20GPB for Demon (inc. VAT). Not 'cheap', but certainly a lot more affordable than it used to be. Demon's service has been pretty good, aside from the occasional glitch: Static IP, no 2 hour kick nonsense, a network status page that's actually updated, good performance, etc. The main problem I have with it is that 128k ISDN does not work with Surftime, but that's a BT problem rather than a Demon one. Demon do, apparently, have a 'network' dialup package which works with dual channel and gives you a range of IPs, but the price goes up to 80GBP/month or so. Easier just to dial in on a non-0844 number to get dual channel when you need the extra bandwidth. Hope that helps someone ;-) Gareth.
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:00:14PM +0000, Gareth Watts wrote:
Just to add to the thread, I'm using ISDN (Home Highway) with Demon's unlimited access dialup account and BT's 24x7 surftime product.
I've just finished my degree in Nottingham and will be moving back to Norwich for a while soon, then on to Cambridge for employment.
Works out as about 55GBP/month for the BT part plus another 20GPB for Demon (inc. VAT). Not 'cheap', but certainly a lot more affordable than it used to be.
Here, I pay NTL 20GBP/month for their cable modem service. That's for 512 down and 128 up. Those are capped limits and it does actually run at that speed. [But, then, I have the fortune to live in a densely populated area] 75GBP/month seems a bit excessive for net access. -- ()= | Toby Jaffey : www.nott.ac.uk/~psystrj/ //\ | "When I think back on all the crap I learnt in high school, it's a v_/_ | wonder I can think at all" - Paul Simon
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Toby Jaffey wrote:
Works out as about 55GBP/month for the BT part plus another 20GPB for Demon (inc. VAT). Not 'cheap', but certainly a lot more affordable than it used to be.
Here, I pay NTL 20GBP/month for their cable modem service. That's for 512 down and 128 up. Those are capped limits and it does actually run at that speed.
Sounds a bit more reasonable.. When I'm in the US I'm on the end of a cable modem connection that does 3000kbit/sec down and about 500kbit/up for about the same money. Coming back to the UK is quite hard ;-)
[But, then, I have the fortune to live in a densely populated area]
75GBP/month seems a bit excessive for net access.
Yes it is, but then before surftime I was paying up to 200GBP/month for the same sort of access. I'm not expecting broadband to make it out here anytime soon :-( Gareth
I use easynet ISDN 128k, Static IP, No problems ever (maybe I shouldn't say that... kiss of death)... ?99 per annum, and an 0845 number.... Simon -----Original Message----- From: alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk [mailto:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Gareth Watts Sent: 12 June 2001 14:00 To: alug@stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] online services in Norwich question Just to add to the thread, I'm using ISDN (Home Highway) with Demon's unlimited access dialup account and BT's 24x7 surftime product. Works out as about 55GBP/month for the BT part plus another 20GPB for Demon (inc. VAT). Not 'cheap', but certainly a lot more affordable than it used to be. Demon's service has been pretty good, aside from the occasional glitch: Static IP, no 2 hour kick nonsense, a network status page that's actually updated, good performance, etc. The main problem I have with it is that 128k ISDN does not work with Surftime, but that's a BT problem rather than a Demon one. Demon do, apparently, have a 'network' dialup package which works with dual channel and gives you a range of IPs, but the price goes up to 80GBP/month or so. Easier just to dial in on a non-0844 number to get dual channel when you need the extra bandwidth. Hope that helps someone ;-) Gareth. _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug@stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!
On 12 Jun 2001, MJ Ray wrote:
My opinion is that BT is solely interested in screwing as much money as possible out of the current technologies (eg ISDN) before having to discount them when they introduce the superior DSL systems. If BT had
Me too,
What prices are wireless networking equipment now? Is it getting to the point where sharing a single higher speed connection among a street is an economic reality? How would the service provider view this?
The prices have dropped to affordable for a group of dedicated hackers but are still not into consumer range yet. It is perfectly reasonable to share the high speed connection this way (again I know of a couple of people doing this with a Cable modem connection who live directly opposite each other), and how would the service provider know if you used NAT etc. (although it could prove a little tricky if somebody on your street had a certain liking for some of the more extreme content on the net and it was traced back to your account)
Shouldn't we just network ourselves anyway and sod the telcos? I seem to recall that some American towns have taken this route.
The trouble is getting a fat pipe in the first place usually requires that you either go directly to a Telco or your sp will have to go to a Telco for the bit of string that connects your house to the ISP. Is it possible to use HAM radio for net connections? there seems to be plenty of things in the Linux kernel for it. -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Adam Bower wrote:
for the bit of string that connects your house to the ISP. Is it possible to use HAM radio for net connections? there seems to be plenty of things in the Linux kernel for it.
Short answer - you don't want to go there. Long answer. 9600 baud is considered fast. You need a licence. The radio "internet" isn't connected to the real one. You need someone within range who's prepared to accept your traffic, last time I checked (about 3 years) that meant Cambridge, which meant I'd need an antenna the size of a pylon, or to learn morse... (--- ... :-) There was talk of a 1.5Mbit link, but I haven't heard anthing in a while, and that was on one of the microwave bands. Welcome to the twilight zone where valves are the vogue and your circuit looks like it's a particularly tricky plumbing problem.
hey i think Hungery use microwave packit radio for there internet backbone, i think the uk radio regultor ppl are too restrictive to let hams do this in the uk. any why what do i know i will probably come to the meet as long as there are no blood scarifices or anything like that. Tom _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Mikhail Tomsky wrote:
i will probably come to the meet as long as there are no blood scarifices or anything like that.
I'm sure that the UEA would not allow any kind of sacrifice to take place on campus. Please do come to the meet and introduce yourself (this also also applys to all the lurkers on this mailing list, I know there are many of you ;-)) you will all be most welcome. Adam -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam
--- Mikhail Tomsky <firetomsk@yahoo.com> wrote:
hey
i think Hungery use microwave packit radio for there internet backbone, i think the uk radio regultor ppl are too restrictive to let hams do this in the uk. any why what do i know
If you use 2.4GHz wireless Lan kit it is license exempt upto 20DBm power! and with long range links possible, and legal, well you know the rest.
i will probably come to the meet as long as there are no blood scarifices or anything like that.
I don't think we have any BSD users coming so I think you should be ok :o) Thanks D
Tom
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Is it possible to use HAM radio for net connections? there seems to be plenty of things in the Linux kernel for it.
Yes. Some people are running 10mb duplex links to the net. However, the large bandwidth requires the use of microwave frequencies say 10GHz and the equipment is usually homebrew. I will look up a site on the web with construction details if anybody is interested!! There is also an extensive packet radio network on which tcp/ip can be run but speeds in the uk at least are very slow, although useable for radio purposes. Simon oh I forgot to mention all of the red tape and the need to pass a City and Guilds exam to gain a licence!
#include <disclaimer.h> --- MJ Ray <markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
David Freeman <david_freeman@rocketmail.com> writes:
BT has the technologie and ability to role out ADSL to everyone, except it costs so much to do. OFTEL wont let us loss lead the excersise to allow us to get lots of penetration into the market. [...]
I don't think you should use "us" here. You are not allowed to speak on the behemoth's behalf.
Sorry, The views are mine and not my employers. I am so used to talking about this at work I refer to us to much.
My opinion is that BT is solely interested in screwing as much money as possible out of the current technologies (eg ISDN) before having to discount them when they introduce the superior DSL systems. If BT had our interests at heart, they would be planning to do residential DSL through the normal connectors, which I think is now possible, and wouldn't require the engineer to come and rip holes in my wall again.
BT is a corporation and as such has the mission of screwing money from people, and while people are still gullable enought to be screwed, they will continue screwing, why else do we get charged so much for things in this country. If you want it and you don't want to pay the expensive price, don't. They will drop the price to get the uptake. Its the way things work. Unfortunatly in this country we don't, we just sit by happily and get screwed. Why do you think people like the sales? cos they get to pay a more sensible price for things, drop the price sell more, there will come a point where the maths works out and you make more money, but try explaining this to a corporation!
Find a place with an always on connection (i.e. UEA) and then put a 802.11b base station with highpower antenna up on the roof, directed at [...]
What prices are wireless networking equipment now? Is it getting to the point where sharing a single higher speed connection among a street is an economic reality? How would the service provider view this?
Coming down. A PCI card is about �150 plus an antenna at about �20. This will work as one end of a link (you will need two ends) it is coming down alot and is starting to become economical for even your normal LAN.
Shouldn't we just network ourselves anyway and sod the telcos? I seem to recall that some American towns have taken this route.
Hear hear, well spoken bruce. A group in ipswich considered building the SWAN, Suffok Wireless area network, we just need more people to make it worth while. Thanks D
-- MJR
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On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Freeman wrote:
Coming down. A PCI card is about £150 plus an antenna at about £20. This will work as one end of a link (you will need two ends) it is coming down alot and is starting to become economical for even your normal LAN.
Cool, what range could you get with that Antenna? Excuse me now while I just go and burn my Credit Cards ;-) -- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam
--- Adam Bower <abower@thebowery.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, David Freeman wrote:
Coming down. A PCI card is about �150 plus an antenna at about �20. This will work as one end of a link (you will need two ends) it is coming down alot and is starting to become economical for even your normal LAN.
Cool, what range could you get with that Antenna? Excuse me now while I just go and burn my Credit Cards ;-)
Depends which antenna and also what is at each end, also obstructions in the way, power levels etc... I can give more detail on sunday Thanks D
-- This message is Copyleft - all rights reversed Adam
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participants (9)
-
Adam Bower -
David Freeman -
Gareth Watts -
Mikhail Tomsky -
MJ Ray -
Simon Jude -
Simon Parkes -
Toby Jaffey -
wbh