Hi Folks,
A query which some of you may be able to resolve!
A friend of mine, whose phone is already on an NTL line, has just had a cable modem installed by NTL for broadband via an NTL cable. The leaves them with the NTL CD awaiting insertion into their computer to initiate the setup and establish the broadband connection. So far so good.
However, this comes with a contract (I don't have the full wording avaiable) on the lines of "By using the software you agree to ... " -- all sorts of things, including assigning to NTL (as "IAP") and "its suppliers Motive Communications Inc." the right to obtain information from their computer and make changes to settings on their computer; and furthermore to waive all possible claims against NTL, Motive, *AND*MICROSOFT*, and anyone else that NTL sees fit, relating to practically anything that one might normally expect to be able to claim for,
The contract also grants NTL/Motive the right to "send information to your computer" and "upload changes", and enters into a commitment to "accept upgrades".
For the most part the scope of these things is completely unspecified and the contract, as worded, seems to be an agreement to leave an open door to NTL and their buddies to extract any kind of information and use it for any kind of purpose, as well as arbitrarily interfering with the computer itself.
In couple of places there is explicit mention of "changing internet related software", in particular a thing called "The Motive Client Foundation", and of the user supplying "information such as name (etc.)" [note "etc."].
While one might shrug ones shoulders and say "Well, in practice, all they're doing is ensuring they will be able to keep a decent service running", the broadness of the wording -- while in principle allows the providers to do what they like in the way of extracting information from the computer and using it any way they like -- is disquieting.
Does anyone have comments on this?
By the way, my friend also has a Linux installation so theoretically could use this instead of the Win98 which the CD is provided for ans which they normally use. Is this likely to prove workable? Presumably the software on the CD encapsulates settings and configurations whose details would need to be known before a Linux box could be set up "by hand" to do the job. And, in any case, it may be that if the "IAP" detects a "non-compliant" system then their servers may simply decline to cooperate.
It all seems a bit of a black hole, and I don't myself know enough about what goes on here to give any advice (other than having the same impression that the contract "gives too much away").
Either or both of accounts of reassuring experiences/horror stories will be welcome!
With thanks and best wishes to all, Ted.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 25-Sep-05 Time: 14:30:45 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
Hi Ted
On Sunday 25 September 2005 14:30, Ted Harding wrote:
A friend of mine, whose phone is already on an NTL line, has just had a cable modem installed by NTL for broadband via an NTL cable. The leaves them with the NTL CD awaiting insertion into their computer to initiate the setup and establish the broadband connection. So far so good.
However, this comes with a contract (I don't have the full wording avaiable) on the lines of "By using the software you agree to ... "
Conversely, by not using the software, you do not agree with the terms and conditions attached to the afore mentioned "software".
By the way, my friend also has a Linux installation so theoretically could use this instead of the Win98 which the CD is provided for ans which they normally use. Is this likely to prove workable?
Unless any major changes have been made to the NTL infrastructure, the software is primarily responsible for registering the modem and setting up some default I.E. settings. Nothing that can not be done under Linux.
I had one of the first cable modems when NTL set up a broadband service and used Linux to register - Have never plugged a M$ enabled box directly in to their network.
It all seems a bit of a black hole, and I don't myself know enough about what goes on here to give any advice (other than having the same impression that the contract "gives too much away").
Either or both of accounts of reassuring experiences/horror stories will be welcome!
I see a number of suspect packets logged by the firewall and boa (a simple http server) from addresses owned by NTL - Some are assigned to customers, but a few are (I suspect) infrastructure boxen..
These two links have some more up to date info than I can provide: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/register.html http://www.chetnet.co.uk/articles/index.php?page=index_v2&id=60&c=14
Regards, Paul.
I have NTL cable, but my "modem" is the set-top-box. I run a network cable from that direct to my Linux box, and that acts as a firewall/router for the rest of my network, via a second network cable in the same machine.
Sorry but I have no experience of using a cable modem. You would probably be better off getting an adsl modem with a network port on it, rather than the (presumably) usb one you already have. That way, they cannot do anything to you by changing settings!
Ted Harding said:
Hi Folks,
A query which some of you may be able to resolve!
A friend of mine, whose phone is already on an NTL line, has just had a cable modem installed by NTL for broadband via an NTL cable. The leaves them with the NTL CD awaiting insertion into their computer to initiate the setup and establish the broadband connection. So far so good.
However, this comes with a contract (I don't have the full wording avaiable) on the lines of "By using the software you agree to ... " -- all sorts of things, including assigning to NTL (as "IAP") and "its suppliers Motive Communications Inc." the right to obtain information from their computer and make changes to settings on their computer; and furthermore to waive all possible claims against NTL, Motive, *AND*MICROSOFT*, and anyone else that NTL sees fit, relating to practically anything that one might normally expect to be able to claim for,
The contract also grants NTL/Motive the right to "send information to your computer" and "upload changes", and enters into a commitment to "accept upgrades".
For the most part the scope of these things is completely unspecified and the contract, as worded, seems to be an agreement to leave an open door to NTL and their buddies to extract any kind of information and use it for any kind of purpose, as well as arbitrarily interfering with the computer itself.
In couple of places there is explicit mention of "changing internet related software", in particular a thing called "The Motive Client Foundation", and of the user supplying "information such as name (etc.)" [note "etc."].
While one might shrug ones shoulders and say "Well, in practice, all they're doing is ensuring they will be able to keep a decent service running", the broadness of the wording -- while in principle allows the providers to do what they like in the way of extracting information from the computer and using it any way they like -- is disquieting.
Does anyone have comments on this?
By the way, my friend also has a Linux installation so theoretically could use this instead of the Win98 which the CD is provided for ans which they normally use. Is this likely to prove workable? Presumably the software on the CD encapsulates settings and configurations whose details would need to be known before a Linux box could be set up "by hand" to do the job. And, in any case, it may be that if the "IAP" detects a "non-compliant" system then their servers may simply decline to cooperate.
It all seems a bit of a black hole, and I don't myself know enough about what goes on here to give any advice (other than having the same impression that the contract "gives too much away").
Either or both of accounts of reassuring experiences/horror stories will be welcome!
With thanks and best wishes to all, Ted.
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 25-Sep-05 Time: 14:30:45 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
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Mike Holden -
Paul -
Ted.Harding＠nessie.mcc.ac.uk