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IDE Channel 1: HD0 (master) and CD/DVD-RW (slave), cable detect IDE Channel 2: HD1 and Zip100 - both slave - not cable-detect.

I think the problem may be the 2 slaves on IDE Channel 2. I think each IDE channel needs to have one master.

Well spotted. My old Zip100 drive was very reluctant to work with any other device on an IDE channel, and, when I upgraded to a CDRW drive, I was happy to get rid of the Zip drive in exchange for a couple of bottles of beer.

Anthony> Do you really need the Zip100 drive? DVDRW is very affordable now and you get 4GB to a standard disk (which equals 40 Zip100 disks!).

The upside of Zip drives are their nice disk speed, which cdrw does not give you - however, flash memory is also a potential replacement... JT

The message <54874100510130124q4ff131a3s75cb9495dcce32ab@mail.gmail.com> from Tim Green <timothy.j.green@gmail.com> contains these words:

Well spotted. My old Zip100 drive was very reluctant to work with any other device on an IDE channel, and, when I upgraded to a CDRW drive, I was happy to get rid of the Zip drive in exchange for a couple of bottles of beer.

Hum - it was working OK in the previous incarnation of that box (PIII-450)

Anthony> Do you really need the Zip100 drive? DVDRW is very affordable now and you get 4GB to a standard disk (which equals 40 Zip100 disks!).

I have DVD-RW in the box, but I use the zip a lot for editing text and jpegs, though I transfer stuff now with a memory stick. I suppose it's not *ESSENTIAL*, but it's handy. I suppose (since HD0 and HD1 are both in caddies, I could use HD1 as a FO big zip drive... I do have a SCSI zip I could try instead, though. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Thursday 13 October 2005 10:15, Anthony Anson wrote:

The message <002301c5cf88$e9755590$b9364d51@bartonsbyi3pwy>

from "Adrian Kiddle" <adrian@quinto.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words:

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I'm not expert with linux but I've put a few boxes together.

I think the problem may be the 2 slaves on IDE Channel 2. I think each IDE channel needs to have one master.

Well, I made the HD (HD1) master first time round, and the Zip wouldn't work properly - it would *SEEM* to be fine, but I think it must have been doing everything in RAM, 'cos it would view/edit so many files (mainly jpegs), then the system would chunter away to itself, transferring chat betwen zip and the HDs. This took upwards of five minutes, and then everything would burst into life again.

Changing HD1 from master to slave fixed that problem...

Can you set all the IDE devices to "cable select"? I don't normally do this myself in normal running, but it would let the devices sort out amongst themselves how they'd like to operate - a useful debugging step I think. Matt

On Thursday 13 October 2005 10:49, Anthony Anson wrote:

The message <200510131030.08097.matt@mpcontracting.co.uk>

from Matt Parker <matt@mpcontracting.co.uk> contains these words:

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Can you set all the IDE devices to "cable select"? I don't normally do this myself in normal running, but it would let the devices sort out amongst themselves how they'd like to operate - a useful debugging step I think.

Do you mean make-up another cable, or just use ordinary IDE unmodified cables and set the devices to cable-select?

If it rearranges things to its satisfaction, it might reallocate C: and not want to boot...

On the jumpers on the drives you should see M/S/CS (master/slave/cable select). This will mean that the devices negotiate their IDE master/slave status between themselves automatically. You'll need to set all the channels to "auto" in the BIOS as well. If you make sure the bootable HD is on IDE channel 1 (physically, on the motherboard) then that should automatically be picked as the boot device. No new cables required. Matt

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On the jumpers on the drives you should see M/S/CS (master/slave/cable select). This will mean that the devices negotiate their IDE master/slave status between themselves automatically. You'll need to set all the channels to "auto" in the BIOS as well.

Note that for CS to work: - All drives must support it, and have it selected - The motherboard must support it - The IDE cable must support it

At the first sign of trouble (and I usually don't even wait for that ) I always scrap CS and specify M/S as desired.

Also note that some drives differentiate between "master - only drive" and "master - slave present", so check those jumpers.

Symptoms of getting it wrong are not usually as simple as "it doesn't work". Sometimes it'll half-boot, sometimes the drives types (eg manufacturer details) will be shown as garbage in the BIOS screens, sometimes it'll work - and all those symptoms can apply to the same PC with the same hardware.

This is very much a hardware dependant problem - you'll find examples where you have a controller and hard drive set where one can be set to master and the other set to cable select, and never have any problems with it - however that may be a rarer coiincidence then anything else. Garbage on bios can also be caused by other problems, especially power supply problems, where the system asks the drive what it is, and there is a surge or a drop in power, the return value can get munged - I've had that happen before when drawing a ermm little too much at once... JT

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 03:00:18PM +0100, Anthony Anson wrote:

The message <434E5540.2050508@stealthnet.net> from James Taylor <james.taylor@stealthnet.net> contains these words:

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Garbage on bios can also be caused by other problems, especially power supply problems, where the system asks the drive what it is, and there is a surge or a drop in power, the return value can get munged - I've had that happen before when drawing a ermm little too much at once...

I run through a UPS, so there shouldn't be a problem on that side, and the PSU is rated at 130 watts, which I'm informed, should be enough.

130W for 4 hard drives, a CD/DVD-RW, a Zip 100 and an AMD 900 (wasn't that back when they ran pretty hot?) doesn't seem an awful lot. Is this a typo? J. -- noodles is really a meal in itself Ask me about server co-location - info@blackcatnetworks.co.uk

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:02:24PM +0100, Anthony Anson wrote:

The message <20051013142107.GN26521@earth.li> from Jonathan McDowell <noodles@earth.li> contains these words: 2 × IDE HDs 2 × SCSI II HDs 2 × UW SCSI HDs 3½" floppy 5¼" floppy

Is ZIMACS the mail program you beta test btw? Can I suggest you file a bug about the fact it doesn't seem to insert a Content-Type header, so the above 1/2, 1/4 and x all failed to display in my mail client (as I'm in UTF-8 and you appear to be in latin1)? J. -- /------------------------------------\ | noodles is fat | | http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ | \------------------------------------/

Anthony Anson wrote:

No, not a typo. I thought it was rather small myself, but it used to run: [..snip..]

A good 130W PSU is worth much more than the cheapo 350W PSUs found in a typical budget PC (eg the type where the case with PSU cost less than £10). So 130W is probably OK if everything has been properly calculated. But it's one of the first (and easiest) things to rule out when problems occur. I've seen functional but unreliable PCs become rock-solid when replacing a cheap 500W PSU with a good 350W model. (Much the same effect you get when replacing an expensive proprietary OS with a free OSS alternative, come to think of it). The use of memtest86 (as suggested elsewhere) coupled with testing with a decent replacement PSU narrows down a surprising number of faults. In fact, faults which don't show themselves from one of these two, and persist past an OS reinstall, are often more trouble to fix than they're worth. IME anyway. -- Mark Rogers More Solutions Ltd :: 0845 45 89 555

Back og the big box - had to transfer ZIMACS across on the memory stick as the established installation disappeared up the SCSI, but since the OS is used to it, it didn't notice the cuckoo in the nest, and it works. Thanks for all the fish^H^H^H^helpful suggestions, gang. -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Update: Isn't it fun when you get two faults in tandem? Removed SCSI stuff and changed jumper of HD1 (on IDE2) to master. Switched on. BSOD Left the tray out of caddy. Box booted normally. Replaced SCSI. Wouldn't boot properly, though it did get there eventually. [5œ] Tried shufflng SCSI HDs. Either it hung during BIOS detecting things, (1 HD connected - either one) or it booted reluctantly (2 HDs fitted). Removed SCSI again - booted normally. Changed HD1 (IDE2) tray for an old Win98 one jumpered as master. Booted. Knoppix now boots and runs from CD without demur. It seems the fault was on the SCSI card, not the graphics, as suggested, and the HD on IDE2 was borked. Not a supply spike or suchlike causing the problem, I'd think, as I run through a decent UPS. Thanks for everyone's input, and all URLs noted: some (if not all) diagnostic [6] tools will be downloaded and stored on CD. [5œ] but it took five and a half minutes about it. [6] I don't believe in Di, or Di doesn't believe? -- Tony http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:33:48PM +0100, Ted Harding wrote:

PS It is on as usual at the Reindeer tonight, isn't it?

Yupyup. Oh, bum, no one sent a reminder, did they? I'll do so now. J. -- Trust me, you wouldn't like us when we're angry. Ask me about server co-location - info@blackcatnetworks.co.uk

On 13-Oct-05 Anthony Anson wrote:

The message <XFMail.051013163348.Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> from (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> contains these words:

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On 13-Oct-05 Anthony Anson wrote:

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Update: [...] Thanks for everyone's input, and all URLs noted: some (if not all) diagnostic [6] tools will be downloaded and stored on CD.

[5½] but it took five and a half minutes about it. [6] I don't believe in Di, or Di doesn't believe?

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Does one gather you've got there?

Well, yes, I think so. And I've got a spare UW SCSI card, I think.

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Otherwise I might have been going to say that I might be at the Reindeer tonight and might have brought a copy of "Linux on a Floppy" and if you might have been there I might have given it to you ...

I might have ben going, and I might have been most thankful, but I just might not have the wherewithal to make an evening of it.

Next month, maybe.

Thanks for the thought.

Maybe next month then! I'll probably abstain myself tonight -- it's a bittie dreich the nicht for a long journey! Good luck with the hardware meanwhile! Cheers, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 13-Oct-05 Time: 18:19:46 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------