I shall definitely be going along to this (acts of God excepted!) so anyone in the Norwich area who wants a lift let me know ASAP. :) (work email keith.watson at kewill.com or private email kpwatson at ukfsn.org).
Who else is coming?
Anybody interested in me doing a demo of converting a Windows only box into a dual boot Windows+GNU/Linux (Debian) system using Knoppix? Let me know via the list otherwise I'll assume it's of no interest to anyone.
Incidentally I've been testing this out and a basic Windows (2000) install takes just over an hour and the conversion takes 45 mins. And the Debian install has all the functionality of Knoppix (as opposed to the very basic Windows set-up).
Here's what I propose;
1) boot box with Knoppix and run the install script (includes using QTParted to repartition the disk) which sets up a 2.4 and 2.6 Linux kernel based system and uses LILO as the boot loader.
[and, if we have a web feed...]
2) set up a Debian sources list and use synaptic to update the software to latest versions
3) show how easy it is to maintain the GNU/Linux software on a Debian set-up by using synaptic.
As there'll be some time spent waiting for things to load off CD or from the net we can talk around some of the issues.
I haven't a spare printer ATM so if anyone's interested and wants to bring one along we can also have a go at setting up a printer.
If there's time I'd also like to have a chat about making backups using gnu/tar as I'm playing around with putting a script together to do this and need all the help I can get :)
Regards,
Keith ____________ ARMOR, n. - The kind of clothing worn by a man whose tailor is a blacksmith. - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary
On 2004-11-25 12:37:45 +0000 Keith Watson keith.watson@kewill.com wrote:
Who else is coming?
I plan to be there. I can offer lifts from the Lynn - Thetford - Diss route or points roughly in between. Email me off-list, please.
Anybody interested in me doing a demo of converting a Windows only box into a dual boot Windows+GNU/Linux (Debian) system using Knoppix?
I'd like to see that, but don't do it just for me. I actually don't get much chance to install new Debian systems these days. Things just keep running once installed now I know roughly which buttons to press ;-)
I'll try to make sane suggestions about the backups.
On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 12:37:45PM -0000, Keith Watson wrote:
Who else is coming?
I am, so is Kirsty we are already giving lifts so have no room left in the car. I will be bringing some nice shiny Ubuntu CD sets for people who want them. If I and others remember to bring the bits needed there will be the facilities for a gpg keysigning. I will also be bringing along some junk^H^H^H^Hwonderful hardware that I want to get rid of.
John has promised some wireless fun, which could be fun or "fun" depending on how it goes.
Adam
Who else is coming?
I will be there.
--
Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. http://www.ashleyhowes.com
"If you always put limits on yourself and what you can do, physical or anything, you might as well be dead. It will spread into your work, your morality, your entire being. There are not limits, only plateaux. But you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you." - Bruce Lee
On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 12:37 +0000, Keith Watson wrote:
Anybody interested in me doing a demo of converting a Windows only box into a dual boot Windows+GNU/Linux (Debian) system using Knoppix? Let me know via the list otherwise I'll assume it's of no interest to anyone.
I'd be interested :)
/Kirsten
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 12:37:45 -0000 "Keith Watson" keith.watson@kewill.com wrote:
Who else is coming?
I didnt, but was thinking how good it would be to bring a working apt-proxy.
Its unfortunately a program in need of a good rewrite as its in sh! but the old sh version is still the best.
I should rebuild the package from stable if I where you
apt-get source -b -t stable apt-proxy
and then install the relevant package. # My own work # References http://www.inittab.de/manuals/debootstrap.html #http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:XStg8MdXobEJ:hacking.dk/talks/debia #n/tips_og_trick/+debconf-get-selections+trick&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 # # TARGET_DIR=/mnt/hda5/ DEBIAN_MIRROR_HOST=debian.mirror.me.org DEBIAN_MIRROR_PORT=9999
DEBIAN_APT_SOURCES=sources.list DEBIAN_APT_INTERFACES=autoinstaller.etc.network.interfaces DEBIAN_FSTAB=autoinstaller.etc.fstab debootstrap sarge $TARGET_DIR http://$%7BDEBIAN_MIRROR_HOST%7D:$%7BDEBIAN_MIRROR_PORT%7D/main dpkg --get-selections > ${TARGET_DIR}/autoinstall_dpkg.db debconf-get-selections > ${TARGET_DIR}/autoinstall_debconf.db cp ${DEBIAN_APT_SOURCES} ${TARGET_DIR}/etc/apt/sources.list cp ${DEBIAN_APT_INTERFACES} ${TARGET_DIR}/etc/network/interfaces cp ${DEBIAN_FSTAB} ${TARGET_DIR}/etc/fstab chroot ${TARGET_DIR} apt-get update
#base-config
debconf-set-selections < ${TARGET_DIR}/autoinstall_debconf.db dpkg --set-selections < ${TARGET_DIR}/autoinstall_dpkg.db apt-get -u dist-upgrade
only problem I found was that when I took all the packages in knoppix from sarge, I installed quite a lot off stuff some off which I did not want which confused me and the computer into why it did not see my Largest 2 hard drives.
My self I have to say the gnome is getting very good and pretty for the cooperate desktop and I feel the icewm and the other window manager users will just have to be impressed with the packages installed from the standard Ubuntu install.
Gnome 2.8 is in sarge well I think the Ubuntu Packages are in sarge, but Ubuntu is closer to MacOs than Redhat. Gnome is very pretty now but I feel is lacking in the modularity I love in Unix. Also the speed of icewm and rox-filer is my preference for a desktop.
Here's what I propose;
- boot box with Knoppix and run the install script (includes using
QTParted to repartition the disk) which sets up a 2.4 and 2.6 Linux kernel based system and uses LILO as the boot loader.
[and, if we have a web feed...]
- set up a Debian sources list and use synaptic to update the
software to latest versions
- show how easy it is to maintain the GNU/Linux software on a Debian
set-up by using synaptic.
I have a CVS directory storing the packages installed in my machines, I was thinking it could be a useful way to setup an install fest. its a time saver with just three machines.
Its at times like these I wish Debian used say the Berkley DB like rpm. its only a small dependency but I guess human readability has its advantages.
Still installs take comparable amounts of time but I feel the Debian installer is worth using from cdrom or NFS. just the netboot from a apt-proxy.
Its this area where Debian falls far behind a rpm Linux install. Sure the systems well configured but an auto install RPM system doesn't have points in the install when manual intervention is demanded.
You insert floppy and go wait for a much shorter time.
Their are a plethora of systems out their for installation based service provision, I feel Linux has the great advantage of being open to inspection, everything is packaged.
Unfortunately I am yet to be satisfied because not only do I want to the enterprise installation offered by Redhat but the Debian auto-configuration of software is so correct in idea its more than appealing.
The biggest result has been that debs have it correct to integrate configuration with packaging. But rpms have but one spec file that has to be named the same as the package and values filled in every time you type
make rpm
such as version, file paths, etc.
Debian requires muliple files with values to be filled in So redhat wins on simplistiy to use. But then make deb is a standard target I look forward to finishing off but at the moment its just a joy to install a debian package, next I want to cron job a reposiory for a test rig.
I do think image installation is dangerous to scalability as clusters and Unattended installations that leave management domains its hard, I would not want someone to provide me with a computer, as a service as I should want to swap out not just computers but ideally open source. Binary compatible OS's do exist it just seems Linux is not destined for that feature. What with Linux being a Gnu. Fortunately most API's near the kernel are very stable.
I do like the libevent in the 2.6 kernel to keep the cross platform model.
Owen
Owen Synge wrote:
Its this area where Debian falls far behind a rpm Linux install. Sure the systems well configured but an auto install RPM system doesn't have points in the install when manual intervention is demanded.
The debian Fully Automated Installer doesn't seem to need manual intervention. http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/
CD-only automated installs were being worked on at http://members.iinet.net.au/~niall/fai/
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 04:31:05 +0000 MJ Ray mjr@dsl.pipex.com wrote:
Owen Synge wrote:
Its this area where Debian falls far behind a rpm Linux install. Sure the systems well configured but an auto install RPM system doesn't have points in the install when manual intervention is demanded.
The debian Fully Automated Installer doesn't seem to need manual intervention. http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/
Thanks I had already found this. I ignored it at my mistake and have a setup at home that can provide the dependencies of dhcp, etc, etc. I think it was because of the difference between sarge and woody.
Does it not use modified non standard packages? Not more than you have to.
Is it done well? Yes I think it maybe better than what I have already seen. I guess that FAI leaves a lot to the system administrator to do though.
It would be interesting to see. have you tried it your self?
CD-only automated installs were being worked on at http://members.iinet.net.au/~niall/fai/
I shan't bother thank-you, knoppix has changed the goal posts. It would have to be client server for this job anyway for me, and seeing how much work FAI needed, and the insistence before I upgraded to 100Mbs Cards that they must network boot. I just downloaded Feather Linux to try using the above technique to autoinstall debian, just with the no questions selected for dpgs setup and a tar
FAI looks really good, I loved the divert idea in the documentation I read.
I have been doing some open source testing on a similar system which I think had missed the ability to dip your toe in it. My only fear is that the Perl scripts would grow and the packages produced shrink.
Regards
Owen
-
adam＠thebowery.co.uk -
Ashley T. Howes, Ph.D. -
Keith Watson -
Kirsten Naylor -
MJ Ray -
Owen Synge