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[Alasdair Kergon <agk@arachsys.com>] [lugmaster] FW: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002.
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:56:46 +0100 From: Alasdair Kergon <agk(a)arachsys.com> To: UK Linux User Groups <lugmaster(a)lists.lug.org.uk> Subject: [lugmaster] FW: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Clashes with SANE (Maastricht). Alasdair ----- Forwarded message from Sacha Dunas <sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com> ----- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:36:19 +0200 From: "Sacha Dunas" <sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com> Subject: Linux Expo Birmingham re-scheduled from 12th-13th september 2001 to 29th 30 th May 2002. Dear Visitor, Thank you for registering for LINUX EXPO BIRMINGHAM. Please note that the show has been RE-SCHEDULED from 12th-13th September 2001 to 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. The show will still take place at the NEC and will have exactly the same focus, dedicated to GNU/Linux and Open Source Solutions. There is no need to register again - we will re-register you automatically for the 29TH-30TH MAY 2002. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by re-scheduling the show. We look forward to seeing you in May for a high-quality show! Yours Sacha Dunas CEO Sky Events / Linux Expo T?l : 0143456600 Fax : 0143459244 Portable : 0672802604 Email : sacha.dunas(a)sky-events.com Linux Expo 2002 Amsterdam - 19 - 20 February Paris - 30 - 31 & 1 February Madrid - 3 - 4 April Sao Paulo - 15 - 16 May Birmingham - 29 - 30 May Milan - June Sky Events 12 avenue de Corbera 75012 Paris ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message -----

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Alug web site - back to Apache
by Martyn Drake 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hi, This is a general announcement to say that there will be a brief outage to the Alug web site (and for that matter - any other web site currently hosted with myself) while I convert from Zeus to Apache. The principle reason for this is that it's not going to be cost effective for me to run the Zeus server anymore - particularly now that Zeus have moved over to an annual support contract for the most part. If anybody is looking to use the Zeus server in their organisation and would like a cheap license - then contact me ;) Therefore, it's back to good old Apache, hopefully as from tomorrow evening. I'll be running version 1.3.19 with all the trimmings, including PHP 4.0.6 for anybody that needs it, and mysql support (which may infuriate a few). With regards to the Postgres database that has been suggested - I will definately install this within the next couple of weeks when I get a chance to sit down and play it with properly. I'll then open it up for anybody that wants a fiddle with it. As stated before - if any members want web space/email - just shout. I'll try to set everything up within 24 hours depending on what's going on (I've my wedding to plan (invites still going out, need to book marquee, etc, etc.) amongst many, many other things). Heck, maybe even create a small form on the main Alug web site that'll email me the details of requested web hosting and it'll email me the details for processing. What do people think? Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Website
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

mjray writes: >xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: >> more? >scheme, http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html >ruby, http://www.rubycentral.com/ I'll volunteer to take all URLs sent and update the booklist/sitelist I did, if no-one else is...? Let me know if anyone else is doing this, so we don't duplicate work, otherwise send them on over. Jen.

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tty puzzle
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

All If I leave my debian box on, I come in in the morning to find the screen displaying erratic debugging messages to do with pg_indexes and suchlike, with letters omitted, where I had left the login prompt. Logging into another console and typing "who" shows only the new console, tty2. Then I discover that the output display on tty2 has also become distorted, "halt" appears as "h lt" but works ok, e.g. What is this bizarre phenomenon; can I prevent it? Ta, jenny.

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > <fx action="light blue touch paper and retire to safe distance"> > Why not add which editor, browser, window manager, shell, mail client > etc... :o) David fails to understand "incremental" (or write XML for that matter)?

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Re: [Alug] Website
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

xsprite(a)bigfoot.com writes: > more? scheme, http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme.html ruby, http://www.rubycentral.com/

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:05 +0100 Neill Newman wrote: > Laurie Brown wrote: > > > > > > That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They > haven't messed me about at all, > > and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of > it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE > > can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... > > > this isn't aimed at one person, or one distro, just a general blow of > steam.. ignore if wanted.... I like these rants great fun and good thread starters. any wwy here goes. > <rant> > > I recommend Suse to all my friends who are home users, but in commercial > environments I use redhat. This is for various reasons; I've been using > it long enough to know what goes where, I can setup/automate large scale > systems very easily, it runs with very little management when I have set > it up, and finally there are some non-technical issues like the managers > and bean counters not having heard of suse or debian. There is more of a > chance that they have heard of redhat... WHAT! SUSE is a complete nightmare, never did get ppp to work on it, and as for yast, well yast is the practical alternative to real unix > Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but for the last few years I have never had any > problems with Rh.. pre 6.2 was a different story though, but that's 3 > years old now ;) yes you are weird but so are most here so we don't hold that against you :o) > I was in a heated discussion with friend recently saying how unstable M$ > stuff is and he said that win2k is very stable, and that I was using the > same reasoning and logic from win95 to judge win2k.. I have to admit > that he was right... No he's wrong! uptill windows 9X they where very crap, win NT is still crashable and I managed on many occasions when at college to wipe it out. Win2K is getting so bloated its un believable, It requires so many resources it is unbelievable. Also WinNT took me 2 weeks to install on two Compaq servers, both failed, Peanut linux went on in under 5 minutes! > Now I'm not saying that we should all switch to winblows, but I am > saying that just because things didn't work in teh past, the past > shouldn't be used to judge the present... the first version of Suse I > used was a compete nightmare (version 5.1), and I hated it with a > passion. But now I am seriously considering giving 7.2 a try... I want > encrypted file system out of the box, and it provides the features I > want, so I'll make the switch... SUSE is horrible. > At the end of the day, the best technical solution is not necessarly the > best solution, M$ is a shining exmaple of how to do things that are > technically wrong, but how to provide a good solution to people's > problems </me hides under rock for the second time today> Oi, make room under this rock, some others need to hide here as well. MS is an example of good marketting and skilful FUD! > I believe that what we alternative OS types should be doing is promoting > the use of alternative systems. I want people to realise that they do > have a choice in linux/BSD/other, and that the community can support > them when they need help. I don't want people thinking that the > community is arguing amoungst itself as to which OS/distro is > technically superiour. Use what is a good solution for the job, and if > that is slackware, mandrake, *bsd, suse, debian then so be it.. Don;t > forget that somebody has to look after these machines, if a newbie is > given a slackware CD then I would consider that an incorrect move, even > if it is better than the rest... Ok, If I had to list what I would use for each task it goes like this Web server of anything outside of a firewall == OpenBSD Desktop boxen == Debian, I have yet to find such an easy ppp setup file server == Novell, hands down this is what it does best! Idiot friendly for newbie's to computers == Apple kit simple as that! Windows IMHO is good at nothing and bad at most things. > Oh well, back to the land of reality ;) Why, reality is shite, trust me on this :o) Thanks D > </rant> > > Sz > > -- > Open Source Specialists http://www.entora.co.uk/ > Tel: +44 (0)701 0723686 Fax: +44 (0)870 3214368 > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Website
by Alexis Lee 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Hiya, I'm going to be webmonking for ALUG soon, so as a first step could I have nominations for people who do stuff for ALUG. Currently I have Mark and I as web editors, Freeman as bookmonkey and Adam as FAQ maintainer. If the venue organisers would like their names to go on the jobs list as well as on the individual venue pages, drop me a mail. Also I would like to compile a list of definitive web references for various things. I have a few programming language ones (Java, C, PHP, ASP) and a few web ones (HTML, CSS, neither perfect). Does this sound a good idea? It probably isn't a good idea to start linking to compile instructions, since we'd end up having a link to every cool project on the web. Speaking of which, one of my .sig quotes is a list of a few cool things I've found. Would this make a good page (with a broken links disclaimer at the top, and lots of contributions)? Focus on utilities that open up new areas (IE expect, cron/at) rather than apps which merely do their job well (IE mozilla, IMHO). Heck, maybe an article discussing the perceived merits of each distro? If we could get an advocate from each distro, an article would come together quickly. Note I wish to focus purely on why one ought to use distro X, rather than not use distro Y. Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 22 Aug '01

22 Aug '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > At the end of the day, the best technical solution is not necessarly the > best solution [...] No, marketing has far too much influence. Why do you think we're heading up the creek at a rate of knots? > I don't want people thinking that the community is arguing amoungst > itself as to which OS/distro is technically superiour. But we *are* arguing about what is technically superior and it encourages innovation. If we try to deny that it happens, people will be repulsed when they discover these arguments going on. We need to set the agenda, not just try to answer others' points. > Use what is a good solution for the job, and if that is slackware, > mandrake, *bsd, suse, debian then so be it.. Bah, pragmatist. Does your freedom and the benefits it brings mean nothing to you? (Notice that you include two freedom-impaired systems in your list...)

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ARM and a leg
by David Freeman 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

I know we have a couple of people who know a bit about all things embedded, can any advise on what chips successfully run the ARM linux? is it something that runs only on the Strong arm processor such as the intel SA1100 (used in the IPaq) or will the ARM Thumb processors run it as well? Also how many people do we have on the list who are experienced in Electrical engineering? Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by David Freeman 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:41:29 +0100 (BST) "D.I. Redhouse" wrote: > On 16 Aug 2001, MJ Ray wrote: > > > Mark Elliss <mark.elliss(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > > > > Ok I'll stop lurking and introduce myself too. > > > > Hooray! Oh, and hello too. > > Ooohhh, OK. > > My name is David. I provide computing support to a humanities department > at a University somewhere in south-east England. Hello, welcome, from your cam.ac.uk address I am assuming you are from Cambridge Uni. > I administer Netware, NT/95/98/2000, Solaris, Linux, OpenBSD and > Macintrash boxen. None of them very well. Also, anything with a plug on > it. Cool, Netware still lives, just out of interest which of the above is your favourite? > I am a big fan of Oracle Applications, NT Roaming Profiles, and IIS. <fx action="shudders"> > A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I was a Field > Archaeologist, and have been responsible for introducing 22 tonne tracked > excavators to some of Britain's less interesting Scheduled Ancient > monuments. I'm not going to ask. > Possibly my least interesting experience to date was trying to work out > why `the internet isn't working' via mobile phone whilst standing on top > of a Bronze Age barrow somewhere in the Fens. Have you tried using a real networking technique, if you can get a little bit of height and some big twigs yoy could use 1-11Mbps wireless ethernet to connect these up, we have had success with over 8 miles per link! > On occasion I work in central (i.e. the sticks of) Sicily. I /was/ going > to use this experience as the basis of an article on computing in the > field. I /was/ expecting to do some nifty juggling with English modems, > the Italian phone system and NAT/IP Masquerading, but when I arrived a > very nice man just connected me to his 100Mbps switched network. Which was > nice. Perhaps you can lend advice to a poor student who has be accused of being a wireless network expert and given the task of connecting a field somewhere in the bottom left hand corner of belguim a network connection for a week so a large quantity of geeks in various states of soberness can connect to the web! bugger! Thanks D > -- > David Redhouse > -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke

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alug.org.uk domain problems
by Alexis Lee 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

(copied to list in case it doesn't get to you) Hi Martyn, I'm behind a router at work, but I can't see the alug.org.uk domain. anglian.lug.org.uk works fine. Can't use CVS or web from it. Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: Meeting report?
by Earl Brannigan 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

Hi Dave, >Notable by absence >BJ >Jen >Jo >Earl >Tarquin Sorry, on hols in Turkey.... V Hot, didn't go near a computer all week. Cheers Earl

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Laurie Brown 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

21/08/01 11:00:56, Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, D.I. Redhouse wrote: > >> Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the >> other distributions? > >More like other distros try and race each other into having the most >unstable software with the biggest version number in! One of the That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They haven't messed me about at all, and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

I'd second you on that one Laurie. I started using Redhat since the dawn of time, but SuSE became much more stable so I switched over to it instead. I do have Redhat and Mandrake systems, but for *real* production SuSE is always the way! Andi Laurie Brown <laurie(a)brownowl.com>@stu.uea.ac.uk on 21/08/2001 11:25:00 Sent by: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk cc: Subject: Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions) 21/08/01 11:00:56, Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, D.I. Redhouse wrote: > >> Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the >> other distributions? > >More like other distros try and race each other into having the most >unstable software with the biggest version number in! One of the That's one reason I'm still with SuSE after all this time. They haven't messed me about at all, and if beta software is in the distro, they ensure one is aware of it. IMO, for a newbie, SuSE can't be beaten. Every time I've been near RH, OTOH... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 --------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: [...] > Mandrake's OK, but part of me wishes I'd stuck with my RedHat 6.2 install > and tried to bodge ViaVoice on to that. I have to ask, seeing as you appear from the Cam: have you tried Debian yet?

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 21 Aug '01

21 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: > Didn't it go through a period of being quite badly behind most of the > other distributions? Well, the "stable" releases tend to be just that: tried and tested stable versions of software rather than just whatever they managed to get to compile on time. If you just need the latest version of one package, then you can just say apt-get source packagename cd package-version debuild binary with an appropriate configuration, of course. Stable still has the benefit of security updates being made available very quickly, although you have to edit the config to enable that. If you're feeling helpful then you can help debug the "testing" set, or if you want *everything* to be the latest and don't mind the occasional goof, "unstable" is for you. > Although equally it could be something to do with the fact that a Debian > user round these parts once described/denounced RedHat as the Windows 95 > of Linux distributions, and I developed a general theory concerning Debian > users. Well, Debian users are allowed to express themselves as badly as any other Linux user. What was probably meant is either that their build quality really isn't as good as it should be, or that RedHat's config tools are rather over-friendly and will happily obliterate any changes you make, while others fall over if you set things up the normal way.

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LPI Certification
by John Seago 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

There was a query raised as to the costs of the Linux Professional Institute Exam. Details can be found at :- http://www.lpi.org/ I understand the costs are $100 US for the Exam and a registration fee. The nearest Exam centres are reported to me as being at Ipswich and Peterborough. John Seago (I've got the time to browse!)

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Re: [Alug] UEA Meetings
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

How about: a September meeting organised by John Woodard at Syleham an October meeting organised by Alexis Lee at UEA a November meeting organised by Simon Parkes at Red Lodge ?

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Re: [Alug] Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by MJ Ray 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

"D.I. Redhouse" <dir21(a)cus.cam.ac.uk> writes: > My name is David. I provide computing support to a humanities department > at a University somewhere in south-east England. It's getting hard to keep getting more excited... but hello to you too! Any more lurkers wanting to break cover? :-))) Hmz... HHGTTG and Fast Show I spotted there... any others?

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Future Meetings
by John Seago 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

I wish to enter special pleading in the matter of future meetings. whilst I can walk for short distances, and even manage a small number of stairs, (though not necessarily at the end of the day, it would be much easier for me were the venue to be wheelchair accessible. John Seago

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Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder
by Andrew.Chandler＠ftid.com 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

How about changing the from address too? A> markj@cloaked.freeserve.co.uk@stu.uea.ac.uk on 20/08/2001 10:13:38 Sent by: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk To: Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> cc: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] Weekly IRC reminder Yay, more editing! Can the following changes be made, please, if everyone agrees? On 20 Aug, Neill Newman wrote: > > This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that > there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. IRC not irc (well, at least be consistent). > The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the > #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more > info on the openprojects network. Perhaps add the following: Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server eu.openprojects.net" and "/join #alug". > Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and > Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. I don't think ircII has been popular for a long time. I'd recommend EPIC in place of it and BitchX, personally. Is kIRC still around? > > Unix > > http://www.bitchx.com Drop this one. It's nasty in the default settings, IMO. > http://www.xchat.org > http://freshmeat.net Add trailing /s. > http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Drop the ()s. EPIC is a pretty good client, even if Brett does say so... _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re: [Alug] The web site
by MJ Ray 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > > Don't exaggerate: there were four errors. > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anglian.lug.org.uk%2F&do… > 17 at my count.. some might be recursive though... DOCTYPE is not inline because sablotron does not support that, as far as I can tell (although I'll try bludgeoning it later). Please adjust your validator setting accordingly.

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Re: [Fwd: [Alug] ARM and a leg]
by jo＠yee-ha.demon.co.uk 20 Aug '01

20 Aug '01

Straight from the horse's mouth... Jo -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Alug] ARM and a leg] Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:28:22 +0100 From: Alan.Hunter(a)arm.com To: jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk Well anything with an MMU should work so ARM720T ARM920T ARM922T ARM926EJS Intel StrongARM Intel XScale Alan. On 20/08/2001 09:01:45 jo wrote: >Care to comment? > > Jo > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [Alug] ARM and a leg >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 0:07:33 GMT >From: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> >Reply-To: David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> >Organization: Anglian Linux Users Group >To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > >I know we have a couple of people who know a bit about all things >embedded, can any advise on what chips successfully run the ARM linux? >is >it something that runs only on the Strong arm processor such as the >intel >SA1100 (used in the IPaq) or will the ARM Thumb processors run it as >well? > >Also how many people do we have on the list who are experienced in >Electrical engineering? > >Thanks > >D > >-- >"Your house sounds like a > fire hazard" Peter Clarke > > > > >_______________________________________________ >alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list >Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk >http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ >http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug >See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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