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[Alug]GCC and the C166
by Ian Bell 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

I append a copy of an article on Hitec's web site concerning their 'new components' for gcc that allow it to compile for the C166 micro. Any comments? Some Myths Dispelled About GNU-C For C166 (and Tricore)…. The C166 has two excellent "commercial" C compilers from Keil and Tasking. There is however a third compiler from Hightec EDV that is based on the GNU-C but which costs about the same as the two well known offerings. However there is a widespread belief that as this compiler is based on GNU-C, it is "free" and some have complained that Hightec's £2000 licence charge is unreasonable and not in the spirit of the Free Software Foundation. As a result, some people are using copies of the Hightec GNU-C for C166 downloaded from various websites or circulated by email. In fact the licence position with the GNU-C for C166 is that the parts defined by Hightec to allow C166 code generation are proprietary and therefore are chargeable. This is (apparently) within the scope of the GNU T&C's and thus Hightec's work is not available from GNU free of charge. Indeed the first line of the GNU public licence says "free is not free" and here, "free" means unimpeded or unbounded rather than without charge. Thus it is acceptable to make money from GNU-derived software like the GNU-C compiler. Programmers are not obliged to put into the public domain new components they have developed for GNU compilers. It is only changes to the core of the compiler that must be made public and lodged with GNU. Thus Hightec's C166 code generator and front-end processor are chargeable. Therefore people using the Hightec GNU-C without a Hightec licence are not strictly legal. Hightec to some extent are doing what Red Hat and Montevista have done with Linux i.e. take loads of disparate pieces of software and make a shrink-wrapped, complete embedded toolchain, in this case for C166 (and Tricore). If you have any queries on this, please email us! Ian

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[Alug]Elmswell film
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 13 Aug '03

13 Aug '03

>Hi people, > >> >Can I ask that if you are going to come to this meeting (or are just thinking >about it) can you let me know so we have an idea of numbers? > >Thanks >Adam I can't make this one, I'm away on holiday from this weekend. Enjoy! Jen

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[Alug]Announce digest, Vol 2 #11 - 1 msg
by announce-request＠lists.alug.org.uk 12 Aug '03

12 Aug '03

Send Announce mailing list submissions to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to announce-request(a)lists.alug.org.uk You can reach the person managing the list at announce-admin(a)lists.alug.org.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Announce digest..." --------------.--------------------------------------------.------------ alug-announce | Newsletter of the Anglian Linux User Group | Weekly(ish) --------------'--------------------------------------------'------------ ** Please send articles for this letter to announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk ** *** Please send replies to main(a)lists.alug.org.uk, not announce... *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Today's Topics: 1. LOCAL: GNU/Linux/Suffolk/Film showing, 17 August 2003 (MJ Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> To: announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:02:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Alug Announce]LOCAL: GNU/Linux/Suffolk/Film showing, 17 August 2003 [1]ALUG [2]Map Meeting 2003.10 : Elmswell, Suffolk Sunday 17 August 2003 Plan for the meeting This meeting is for a screening of the film [3]Revolution OS. Doors will open about 2pm and the film will start about half an hour later. Please keep checking this page for updates. How to get there For directions, please see [4]the venue information page. Use [5]the meeting transport page if you want to share your journey. People at the meeting So far, Adam, Kirsty, Big John, MJR and Rob are known to be there. If you will also be coming to this meeting, please email [6]Adam, so we can be prepared for the numbers! Equipment Equipment is brought at your own risk. We strongly suggest that you tag or label your kit. No known thefts have occurred at our meetings, but there is ample scope for going home with the wrong cables, etc. Be sure to bring all appropriate power cables etc. An extra extension lead will also be a good idea. Discussion If you want to discuss this meeting, please [7]use the mailing list. [8]Back to the meetings index * Destinations 1. [9]Join ALUG 2. [10]FAQ 3. [11]Meetings * Local LUGs 1. [12]Peterborough 2. [13]Cambridge * Recent Donors 1. [14]PHP4Hosting 2. [15]Black Cat Networks 3. [16]Martyn Drake 4. [17]Turo Technology LLP 5. [18]O'Reilly UK You may think I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one [19]UK LUGs References 1. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 2. http://www.alug.org.uk/ 3. http://www.revolution-os.com/ 4. http://www.alug.org.uk/venues/elmswell.html 5. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?MeetingTransport 6. mailto:abower@thebowery.co.uk 7. http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/main 8. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/ 9. http://www.alug.org.uk/background/contacts.html 10. http://www.alug.org.uk/contrib/?AlugFaq 11. http://www.alug.org.uk/meetings/2003/ 12. http://www.peterboro.lug.org.uk/ 13. http://www.cambridge-lug.org/ 14. http://www.php4hosting.co.uk/ 15. http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/ 16. http://www.drake.org.uk/ 17. http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ 18. http://www.oreilly.co.uk/ 19. http://www.lug.org.uk/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Announce mailing list Announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk http://lists.alug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce End of Announce Digest

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[Alug]Weekly IRC reminder
by Neill Newman 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

This is the automated ALUG IRC meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an IRC meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.alug.org.uk in the #alug channel. Most IRC clients should allow you to get there with the commands "/server irc.alug.org.uk" and "/join #alug". Popular IRC clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and EPIC on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.xchat.org/ http://freshmeat.net/ http://www.epicsol.org/ Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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[Alug]Athlon 2200+ chip FS
by Dan Beimborn 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

Anyone on the list want my used AMD Athlon XP 2200+ & a nice Tai Sol cooler? You'll need a little fresh grease for the heatsink contact, but that's it. Just removed from my system working to replace with a faster one. £30 OBO DB

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[Alug]About Gentoo Linux?
by Edenyard 10 Aug '03

10 Aug '03

I've just read something on Daniel James' 'Linux User Bulletin' that's got me thinking. There was mention of Gentoo Linux and it said that Gentoo was 'self-building'. Does that mean that, when one installs Gentoo, all the packages get automatically compiled for the processor that's actually in the machine, rather than defaulting to a 386 or something? Does that also mean that it takes an absolute age to install? And is it really much of an improvement over, say, my favourite Slackware? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but to a Bear of Very Little Brain (TM), it's perplexing and interesting all at the same time - maybe a bit like a jar of honey whose lid won't come off.... (Oh dear - guess what I've been reading lately?) Any enlightenment, please, anyone? Cheers, Gerald.

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[Alug]Riddle me this
by BenE 09 Aug '03

09 Aug '03

I've very nearly gotten my zaurus to link with my PC (they're pinging each other now), and the next step is to get qtopia desktop installed. Unfortunately, it's only available as an RPM and I'm strictly a compile from source person. So, I have 2 choices (that I can see) 1: install RPM 2: extract the files from the RPM using the program that was mentioned on here last week I think. I am leaning towards option 2 but I'm unsure about the dependencies. Is there a way I can work out where the various dependencies it needs should be? Is it just a matter of running it and working out what symlinks I should place where based on the error messages or is there a nicer option? cheers, BenE --------------------------------- Love is all I bring, in me crass t-shirt 'n' ting

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[Alug]laptops and batteries
by syd 08 Aug '03

08 Aug '03

Not specifically linux - hope no-one is bothered by that. You people are my front-line support for any compter advice. I've just bought a T-series Thinkpad. It has Lithium-Ion batteries. AFAIR these do not have the 'memory' effect so does that really mean in practice that it is perfectly OK to give short booster charges no matter what the state of charge/discharge? Also, I think I've seen somewhere that keeping the laptop on mains power withthe battery installed will lead to reduced battery life. Is this the case? TIA Syd

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[Alug]re: Linux for *everyone*
by James Edward John Taylor 08 Aug '03

08 Aug '03

Long windy email which took me a while to type and then probably dosnt make much sense: Brief Summary: I dont believe Open Source software has to be userfriendly. I feel **VERY** strongly that the programmer has the right to be "free" in their programming and make non-user friendly interfaces IF THEY SO WISH, and that the dicussion over "they SHOULD" make userfriendly or "people should" is at basically wrong, because they are getting a free ride out of the software that the programmer probbably has a lot more better stuff to be doing. This is not a(nother) personal attack at Ben, but just the statement that his argument "I dont have time to learn something to do something like that because I have "more important" stuff to do" (where more important is whatever his or her REAL job, school work, etc) I am reversing to use against him. "Programmers dont have time to cope with the "whims" of those people who make a preference to do non-really harsh techinal stuff, becasue we have something "more important" to do" (where more important is whatever new toy we've just bought is). Did I stress that I feel VERY strongly about this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And for the full bloated boring bit: I should first admit here and now that I winge when a config file is ... wierd or difficult to understand, and I also admit that I ask for help in it.... Knowing when to ask for help is always a brilliant trait in my opinion. Im going to assume here that I was in the IRC discussion. I think I was, I think I stormed out of it to Cambridge. Hell, I had to go... I think the discussion went along the lines of: ben: "theres no gui, this is too hard because i dont understand it/dont have time to understand it/dont want to understand it" (note this is not a dig at ben, all three options are perfectly acceptable. I dont understand the XWidget functions.... i dont want to understand them, so dont want to waste time learning them) us: "There isnt a function because no-ones written one... everyone who has needed one just learnt how to do it, and then couldnt bearsed to write a gui, becasue they could do it and didnt need a gui after that" ben: "but thats wrong" us: "no, its not, because we know how to do it"... and so on The fact that I had written another (command line) script which did this function, and tied it into a webpage was irrelavant, no one had "released" and "packaged" one for "simple" and "easy" installer. So perhaps we where being pigheaded. But that dosnt stop us being wrong. The title of this discussion is "Linux for everyone". But I disagree. Thats not what people mean in this discussion at all. The arguement is really about what do the people who are actually programming have to do, and what the people are gettng the free ride want them to do. Becasue we're not talking about Linux here. We where talking about Fluxbox. Flux box isnt linux. You dont need linux to run fluxbox. So perhaps im just nitpicking the title of the topic, but I dont think so, I think im nitpicking at OpenSource programmers and advogatoists in general. I support Open Source as is the solution to a lot of my problems. Im happy and proud to release the majority of my source code into the public domain, I really do like the idea of open specifications and industry wide standards that are kept to and maintained. But I dont like the idea that people can turn around and tell me that im doing something "wrong". If I want to pass data between two computers in a completly propietry way, then I should be allowed to, open source or not. What has that got to do with GUI? well its just another thing being "difficult" or should i really say "unknown". Thats freedom isnt it? Sure, you might say I have to have freedom to do things with connection and making it easy for people to connect, but perhaps I dont want to make life easier for you programmers. Perhaps my methods provide abetter service in terms of processor speed, or memory allocation or whatever argument I'm using. Im allowed to, its my program after all. And perhaps at this time, I cant expect people to conform to my propietry standards. But then again, perhaps I can, I can point to several case examples where a client turns round to us and says we'll offer you this data in an electronic fomat in this formatt "blat" and we have to parse it. Its either that or type it all in by hand (which is what we do before we set up the electronic link). We dont get any choice, we just get down and do it. - but we're techis. And thats what we're paid to do. Perhaps Open Source is just too policial. Perhaps you're stuck between a bunch of idealistics who would kill people who defie the GPL license and a bunch of programmers who just couldnt care less as long as you can use the code to solve your problem. At the end of the day. If my boss comes in and says "I need to do ... **THIS** then I will automatically look at how its done now, and how it works. If my program I write for him infringes a patent established four years ago, how would I know? Would I care? no. Nobody else would know about it, I wouldnt ever get into trouble unless I started distributing the code." You people who are sitting there saying "its hard to use, and therefore people wont use it, Do I care? No. I am not one of those people, I do not benifit by them using my code. if they WISH to use my code and they dont know how, then they cancontact me and I might help them, or they could pay a local person to install it for them and configure it. You dont do your own car servicing do you (ignore that comment those people in here that do (iDunno for starters))? And you guys are probably the techincal elite. Why expect non-techincal people who dont [want] to understand to be able to do it. Even if you give them a "gui". Its not my problem, i dont have to solve it. And thats what OS is all about isnt it. You solve your problems and release the fixes so other people dont have them. You dont go hunting out problems to solve. (this is only in a specific bug sense - all of us do go "hm i wonder if i can....", but we dont go "oh lets just see what the latest bug report for EVERY package is and then fix it"). Open Source does **NOT** have to be for everyone. Anyone suggesting that it should, completly, without reservation, dosnt have any idea of the scale of the system and should run back to the saftey of their management course. Sure, write your gui if you want. But noone should ever start going round saying "you have to write a gui otherwise im not going to use it" because we'll just say "... ouch im hurting inside, ... no really" Remember, we're effectivly getting a free ride - **NOBODY** will stop you making a GUI for anything. **ALL** of us will support you. **MOST** of us would help you. We'll be happy to help solve the little naggliy bugs like "why dosnt this bit of regex work" and soon. HEll, if you start, you'll probably be the momentum to get a couple of us to finish it off for you, which is what you really want. I for one, will not be changing the way I program to be more userfriendly. I dont write user friendly programs. I dont really write programs which have users to interface into. Installing them are long ardious tasks. 99.9% of the population or more will not benifit from it. But for a user, any user, who dosnt *WANT* and i emphasise want here because if you did want to understand you wouldnt *MIND* can start an arugment that its not userfriendly. Sure, the guy who wrote it could ask for comments, or ask for ideas for improvements, but for people to comelong and say "no, thats pants becuase it is difficult" is (in my opinion) selfrighteous and pigheaded.

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[Alug]Next meet
by Daniel Silverstone 07 Aug '03

07 Aug '03

Hello all, Just thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Daniel, and I'm a Linux User. </aa> Just wondering when the next meeting was likely to be, and where. I noticed that the previous meets seemed to centre around the more easterly parts of Anglia; is that where most of the ALUG members are? If not, how about trying a meet somewhere closer to Cambridge or Ely? Just an idea. D. -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.digital-scurf.org/ Hostmaster, Webmaster, and Chief Code Wibbler Digital-Scurf Unlimited GPG Public key available from keyring.debian.org KeyId: 20687895 Your domestic life may be harmonious.

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