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RE: [Alug] PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Firstly, MJ Ray Wrote: > What the hell are you doing if you expect to do more than 8k in a > single row? If it's a single large object, you should use the > particular support for it (which I admit I'm bad at using). If it's > really unavoidable, you can change that limit to something larger by > recompiling. And Then, Alexis Lee Wrote: > Some People (those who 'picked up database design as they went along'), > like to have all the data in a single table. Lots of fields. It does reduce > joins... <wince> > Incidentally, Martyn, I make the above comment assuming such a design has > been forced upon you, not that you are one of the Some. And In Defense, I Write: I DID pick up Database design as I went along, I first started using Pick/D3 on Linux (back in 96 I think?) which was my first introduction to relational database design. Although I doubt I am even an adequate database designer (having little "real-world" experience) I am not a person who likes large data tables, in fact I have a habit of creating more tables than most people would ever care to count (I believe it's the database equivalent of Sadomasochism?) However, in this particular case it is a single large text file containing legal information/requirements/building regs/energy conservation regs etc. and all those lovely clauses that solicitors love connecting to each particular building we are involved in the construction of. Many can be split down but some are SO big and cumbersome that I decided (with time restrictions imposed - my only real defense against ignorance here) a single table per contract would be the easiest way to go. However, if someone wishes to enlighten the un-enlightened on the best way to handle such volume I would be most appreciative (the IT department here is just 1 person - ME so research time is a precious commodity). I therefore enter a plea of "guilty with extenuating circumstances". Cheers for the advice to all though. Think I will 'play' with PostgreSQL tonight. Good job the coffee machine is free-vend. Martyn

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next meet
by Alexis Lee 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

May I request the next meet be at UEA? I provisionally offer to try installing PHP for people. It's always easier to be there. Did the buffer overflow demo happen? Alexis -- "All programmers are optimists" - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Failure- When your best just isn't good enough. "Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that"

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Re: [Alug] PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by MJ Ray 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

"Martyn Ashworth" <martyn.ashworth(a)eag.uk.com> writes: > What advantages are there to migrating across to PostgreSQL now ? A database that works "better", is more "stable and has less "interesting extensions". My opinion only, some people love mySQL and I expect we'll have to wait a few generations for Darwin to work and all the mySQL supporters to have gone insane and not had any surviving offspring. (Hint for the hard of thinking: I'm not being entirely serious here.) > The other problem that i can forsee is that apparantly PostgreSQL has an 8k > row limit which is not un-workable but would require more time and effort > than MySQL for some of my data structures at the present time. What the hell are you doing if you expect to do more than 8k in a single row? If it's a single large object, you should use the particular support for it (which I admit I'm bad at using). If it's really unavoidable, you can change that limit to something larger by recompiling. > I would appreciate any helpful feedback here as the only useful comparison > i've found so far seems to be inconclusive to say the least !! All comparisons but one's own are inconclusive...

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PostgreSQL v MySQL ??
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

>> Currently working on a large internal PHP/MySQL/Apache system. (get ready >> for some "help needed" questions soon). > Aagh! Use Postgres! > In a month or three's time you'll thank me... Probably a stupid question but... What advantages are there to migrating across to PostgreSQL now ? For the kind of site that we are developing there seem to be no real advantages that I can make out? (considering that the user base here is 45 and at most 20 would be on-line at any one point). The other problem that i can forsee is that apparantly PostgreSQL has an 8k row limit which is not un-workable but would require more time and effort than MySQL for some of my data structures at the present time. The set-up here is not going to be "hardcore" like a commercial site with huge hit stats per day. I would presume we'll be lucky to hit 10,000 page hits in an average working day. I would appreciate any helpful feedback here as the only useful comparison i've found so far seems to be inconclusive to say the least !! Yours, Martyn

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Fw: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd)
by David Freeman 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

This was sent to the eurorights mailing list. I think we are doomed! Thanks D -- "Your house sounds like a fire hazard" Peter Clarke ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jei <jei(a)cc.hut.fi> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:10:20 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: [Eurorights] FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:43:44 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)politechbot.com Subject: FC: California appeals court rules against DeCSS defendant The opinion, released Tuesday, can be found at: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/H021961.PDF Background on DVDCCA lawsuit (a California state case using trade secret claims, as opposed to the federal DMCA lawsuit in New York): http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=dvdcca Statements from the DVD CCA attorneys: In response to Court of Appeal of the State of California, Sixth Appellate District, ruling on Matthew Pavlovich v. Superior Court of Santa Clara Co. Jeffrey L. Kessler, Senior Litigation Partner (Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP): "We're very pleased with the court's decision because it stands for the principle that individuals who steal trade secrets cannot hide behind the internet as a shield to protect them from responsibility for their unlawful conduct." Robert G. Sugarman, Senior Litigation Partner (Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP): "This decision clearly indicates that individual states like California have the legal ability to protect businesses and organizations in their states from unlawful conduct carried out against them via the internet." ************ Excerpts from ruling: Pavlovich founded and operated the LiVid video project, whose purpose was to aid in the development of an unlicensed system for DVD playback and copying. Pavlovich owned and operated the Web site called "livId.on.openprojects.net," where he posted the DeCSS program. Pavlovich knew that DVDs deliver motion picture content to their purchasers. He testified in his deposition that DVDs are "a large storage medium" that can be used for "a lot of different things," one of which, "holding motion pictures," is "probably the most well known." Pavlovich admitted in his deposition that "there was an organization which you had to file for or apply for a license or whatever" to use certain DVD technology, and that he knew about this because "[i]n the course of the development of the project, the Linux video and DVD project, there was a lot of discussion regarding the decryption piece of the full length of decoding of DVD and, you know, there were individuals making statements on the mailing list as to - to that effect." Pressed for the kind of statements he had heard, Pavlovich answered it was "[s]omething along the lines of you've got to apply for a license and whatnot." Nonetheless, Pavlovich never sought or obtained a license to use DVD technology for his LiVid project. Pavlovich admitted that his LiVid project utilized DVD CCA's trade secrets, including those contained in DeCSS. Pavlovich further admitted that through the LiVid project he aimed to develop an unlicensed DVD player that would use DeCSS to decrypt DVD data. Pavlovich knew that DeCSS was developed by reverse engineering, which he knew was unauthorized. [...] Despite his knowledge of how DeCSS obtained and misappropriated DVD CCA's trade secrets, Pavlovich sought to and actually disseminated those trade secrets. [...] Because Pavlovich knew that California is commonly known as the center of the movie industry, and knew that Silicon Valley in California is one of the top three technology "hot spots" in the country, he knew, or should have known, that the DVD republishing and distribution activities he was illegally doing and allowing to be done through the use of his Web site, while benefiting him, were injuriously affecting the motion picture and computer industries in California. The question is whether Pavlovich's lack of physical and personal presence in California incapacitates California courts from jurisdictionally reaching him through its long-arm statute. We hold it does not. [...] We conclude the denial by the trial court of Pavlovich's motion to quash service of process comports with notions of fair play and substantial justice under the due process clause of the United States Constitution. Consequently, the exercise of jurisdiction by the trial court is reasonable. The petition for a writ of mandate is denied. Real party in interest DVD CCA is awarded costs as the prevailing party. ************ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:40:44 -0700 From: Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org> Subject: CA Court Asserts Jurisdiction Over TX Net Publisher Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Electronic Frontier Foundation Media Advisory For Immediate Release: August 8, 2001 Contacts: Robin Gross, Staff Attorney - Intellectual Property, robin(a)eff.org, +1 415-436-9333 x112 Lee Tien, EFF Senior Staff Attorney, tien(a)eff.org, +1 415-436-9333 x102 CALIFORNIA COURT ASSERTS JURISDICTION OVER NON-RESIDENT INTERNET PUBLISHER On August 7th, the California Sixth Appellate District issued an opinion denying Matthew Pavlovich's motion to dismiss the case against him for lack of personal jurisdiction over him. Pavlovich, who was a college student in Indiana and now lives in Texas, claims postings made to the LiVID mailing list, which he ran from his home computer should not subject him to defending himself in California. LiVID is an open source development team working to build a DVD player compatible with the Linux operating system that could compete with the movie studios' monopoly on DVD players. In January 2000, a California judge issued an injunction banning dozens of individuals, including Pavlovich, from publishing DeCSS computer code. Today, the court held that because Pavlovich knew the movie business was in California, publishing information that might have an effect on its profits was a sufficient connection to find Pavlovich within the court's purview. This ruling magnifies the ability of Hollywood or other businesses to successfully sue anyone in the world who publishes information on the Internet which the movie studios claim could hurt their profits. Pavlovich is considering an appeal of the order to the California Supreme Court on Constitutional Due Process grounds. Text of ruling: http://www.eff.org/Cases/DVDCCA_case/20010807_pavlovich_appelate_ruling.html About EFF: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is the leading civil liberties organization working to protect rights in the digital world. Founded in 1990, EFF actively encourages and challenges industry and government to support free expression, privacy, and openness in the information society. EFF is a member-supported organization and maintains one of the most linked-to Web sites in the world: http://www.eff.org/ - end - -- -- Stanton McCandlish mech(a)eff.org http://www.eff.org/~mech Technical Director/Webmaster Electronic Frontier Foundation voice: +1 415 436 9333 x105 fax: +1 415 436 9993 EFF, 454 Shotwell St. San Francisco CA 94110 USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Eurorights mailing list Eurorights(a)eurorights.org http://www.eurorights.org/mailman/listinfo/eurorights

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RE: [Alug] php4 install
by Martyn Ashworth 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

goto this url http://www.phpbuilder.com/forum/archives/3/2000/8/1/100820 and hopefully the answer should be in there somewhere ? i would read it all myself but i'm just having one of those afternoons!!! -----Original Message----- From: alug-admin(a)stu.uea.ac.uk [mailto:alug-admin@stu.uea.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com Sent: 16 August 2001 14:20 To: alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Alug] php4 install M J Ray wrote: >Do that and we will have to kill you ;-) To put me out of my misery? Or you? >What are the last few lines before the >make "***...Error" line that you gave? Making install in . make[1]: Entering directory `/php-4.0.6' /bin/sh /php-4.0.6/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -I. -I/php-4.0.6/ -I/php-4. 0.6/main -I/php-4.0.6 -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 -I/php-4.0.6/Zend -I/php-4.0.6/e xt/mysql/libmysql -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/xmltok -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/x mlparse -I/php-4.0.6/TSRM -DLINUX=2 -DEAPI -DTARGET="apache" -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUS E_EXPAT -DSUPPORT_UTF8 -DXML_BYTE_ORDER=12 -g -O2 -o libphp4.la -rpath /php-4. 0.6/libs -avoid-version -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -R /usr/local/pgsql/lib stub.lo Zend/libZend.la sapi/apache/libsapi.la main/libmain.la regex/libregex.la ext/my sql/libmysql.la ext/pcre/libpcre.la ext/pgsql/libpgsql.la ext/posix/libposix.la ext/session/libsession.la ext/standard/libstandard.la ext/xml/libxml.la TSRM/lib tsrm.la -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv stub.lo: file not recognized: File truncated collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [libphp4.la] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/php-4.0.6' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 >Once again, what is wrong with the prebuilt php4 that you're trying to >fix? Or is this all an exercise in masochism? I can't remember exactly, as it seems a long time ago, perhaps I could retry......there were some probs so I left it a few weeks and have just come back to it. I'm still a bit hazy on what is the easy way and what is the hard way here. :-) I seeem to choose the hard way every time by mistake, anyway. Thanks, Jenny. _______________________________________________ alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug See the website for instructions on digest or unsub!

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

M J Ray wrote: >Do that and we will have to kill you ;-) To put me out of my misery? Or you? >What are the last few lines before the >make "***...Error" line that you gave? Making install in . make[1]: Entering directory `/php-4.0.6' /bin/sh /php-4.0.6/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -I. -I/php-4.0.6/ -I/php-4. 0.6/main -I/php-4.0.6 -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 -I/php-4.0.6/Zend -I/php-4.0.6/e xt/mysql/libmysql -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/xmltok -I/php-4.0.6/ext/xml/expat/x mlparse -I/php-4.0.6/TSRM -DLINUX=2 -DEAPI -DTARGET="apache" -DUSE_HSREGEX -DUS E_EXPAT -DSUPPORT_UTF8 -DXML_BYTE_ORDER=12 -g -O2 -o libphp4.la -rpath /php-4. 0.6/libs -avoid-version -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -R /usr/local/pgsql/lib stub.lo Zend/libZend.la sapi/apache/libsapi.la main/libmain.la regex/libregex.la ext/my sql/libmysql.la ext/pcre/libpcre.la ext/pgsql/libpgsql.la ext/posix/libposix.la ext/session/libsession.la ext/standard/libstandard.la ext/xml/libxml.la TSRM/lib tsrm.la -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv stub.lo: file not recognized: File truncated collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [libphp4.la] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/php-4.0.6' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 >Once again, what is wrong with the prebuilt php4 that you're trying to >fix? Or is this all an exercise in masochism? I can't remember exactly, as it seems a long time ago, perhaps I could retry......there were some probs so I left it a few weeks and have just come back to it. I'm still a bit hazy on what is the easy way and what is the hard way here. :-) I seeem to choose the hard way every time by mistake, anyway. Thanks, Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

With suggestions now flowing in thick and fast, I 've made a summary of replies so far: 1. Jen tries to compile php4 and finds apxs missing 2. jen compiles php4 without it and finds libphp4.so modules missing 3. jen is advised by Sean Neakums to install apache-dev for apxs etc 4. php4 now compiles but make install gets stuck doing *something* with libphp4.la 5. M J Ray asks about the apxs error, "not in path" - answer is it wasn't but is now. 6. Alexis Lee suggest more error log, but jen can't seem to find anything helpful. 7. Alexis Lee offers to send libphp4.so module although it is Deeply not The Right Way To Do It - this sounds very tempting to jen but she may well end up in a worse muddle. 8. Otherwise Alexis suggests things to do with apache sources and rebuilds of httpd, which also may end up with jen in a worse muddle 9. David Freeman offers his condolences and points jen once again at his "C" book......... Is it worth me comparing libphp4.la files? Re. Error log file - I've got config.log but the error is occurring on make install. My thoughts are that I could try and see if anything is wrong with makefile or libphp4.la (though why should there be?), then gratefully accept the libphp4.so module and try and work out where to stick it, the failing that do the thing with recompiling apache and httpd and php. Then failing that, borrow David's C book....... ;-) Sorry for the long output, but i've posted it below - can anyone see anything wrong with it? Thanks, Jenny. # libphp4.la - a libtool library file # Generated by ltmain.sh - GNU libtool 1.3.5 (1.385.2.206 2000/05/27 11:12:27) # # Please DO NOT delete this file! # It is necessary for linking the library. # The name that we can dlopen(3). dlname='' # Names of this library. library_names='' # The name of the static archive. old_library='libphp4.a' # Libraries that this one depends upon. dependency_libs=' -R/usr/local/pgsql/lib -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv -ldl -lpq -lcrypt -lresolv -lm -ldl -lnsl -lresolv' # Version information for libphp4. current=0 age=0 revision=0 # Is this an already installed library? installed=no # Directory that this library needs to be installed in: libdir='/php-4.0.6/libs'

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Re: [Alug] php4 install
by Laurie Brown 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)alug.org.uk> wrote: >On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:54:54 +0100 Sean Neakums wrote: > >> >>>>> "JH" == Jenny Hopkins <Jenny_Hopkins(a)toby-churchill.com> writes: [BIG SNIP] Not debian-related, but there's some good docs on this stuff on the web. Take a look-see at: http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/PHP/SoothinglySeamless/print.html and enjoy! It's a manual compile, but I followed it (mostly) and it worked for me. Besides, there's nothing wrong with building stuff from scratch, and IMO, rather a lot to be said for it... Cheers, Laurie. --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie(a)brownowl.com PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Lurkers (was new subscriber introductions)
by Mark Elliss 16 Aug '01

16 Aug '01

Ok I'll stop lurking and introduce myself too. Name: Mark Elliss I work from home in a small village called Onehouse in Suffolk. I am an Objective-c programmer by choice and an electronics engineer by trade. I use Linux to develop programs which I then have to port to Windoze, Solaris, IBM AIX and HP-UX. The company I work for is based in London so it's great to work online. Family permitting I hope to attend some of the meets soon. Regards Mark

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