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Re: [Alug] Linux Help
by David Freeman 21 Jan '01

21 Jan '01

--- Brett Parker <brettp(a)stu.uea.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:08:29PM +0000, kerin wrote: > > Hello > > I've just got my X-Chat to work, so i thought I'd see what was > about, I > > visited a Linux Help channel, and could not believe what i saw, a > guy > > came in asking for help with lilo he was having to use a boot disc > to > > start his linux, and asked if anyone could tell him how to install > lilo > > properly. What happened they totally ignored him and carried on > talking > > to (well taking the p*** out of some bloke that wanted to record > > something without a pc or tape deck), after i pointed out this chap > the > > reply was "there are hundreds or pages of help written", Its the > same as > > taking a car to a garage and the mechanic saying to you go bye a > book > > and repair it your self, how can the Linux world expect to > encourage new > > users with answers like that, when with "Windows" all you have to > do is > > look through the yellow pages and you will find someone to help you > > despite all the help pages that are written. > > Kerin > > yeah, I must admit that there is a lot of this behaviour, but, at the > same time, the documentation is *vast* and written *well* (as long as > you hit the right docs!). I have found some of them useful but only > if I > *really*, *really* can't find any documentation. If you are after > help > 99% of the time a newsgroup is easiest, if its targetted to a single > project try to see if they have there own IRC channel, I have used > this > approach quite a few times and have always found that it tends to > work. > The only real quarm I have with most of the "linux" irc channels is > that > they have a distinct nack of not accounting (at all) for "newbies" to > IRC, for example they do put a warning in the channels topic > (usually) > telling you to go read the FAQs, the reason for this is that 99% of > questions are answered nicely, and neatly in that FAQ. I know it > sounds > as if I'm defending them, and to some extent I suppose I am (I've > been > asked the same question repeatedly for like 6 hours, it gets > *very* annoying). > > Anyways, just my 2p worth, > > Brett As a relative newbie, I have found that the default reply on most groups/channels/lists is RTFM. and alot of the DOCS are great if you are very good with programming, understand compiler messages, and know unix very well, But not if you are a raw beginner. I have spent a week trying to install PHP and mysql on a machine and the only answer I ever got was RTFM, which isn't to helpful. Now whilst I agree that I most linux users are very willing to help (well those on this list are, see my PPP problems) alot are very closed to newbies. Just my 2p. D - <action=returns to trying to work out why SDL doesn't work> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Linux Help
by kerin 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

Hello I've just got my X-Chat to work, so i thought I'd see what was about, I visited a Linux Help channel, and could not believe what i saw, a guy came in asking for help with lilo he was having to use a boot disc to start his linux, and asked if anyone could tell him how to install lilo properly. What happened they totally ignored him and carried on talking to (well taking the p*** out of some bloke that wanted to record something without a pc or tape deck), after i pointed out this chap the reply was "there are hundreds or pages of help written", Its the same as taking a car to a garage and the mechanic saying to you go bye a book and repair it your self, how can the Linux world expect to encourage new users with answers like that, when with "Windows" all you have to do is look through the yellow pages and you will find someone to help you despite all the help pages that are written. Kerin

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New ALUG Website: Site Launched
by MJ Ray 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

The new site is live! Go take a look at http://www.anglian.lug.org.uk/ It's all held under revision control (CVS) and built using the latest in simple user-friendly technology. I'm now accepting more articles to make the first "edition" of the site which will be announced in numerous places, along with details on LinuxDay and our next meeting (confirmed yet John?). As I've said to one person off-list, I know the current design isn't that great, so if you want to come up with a new page template, please create it and show it to the list. I'll abide by the decision of the majority, natch. So, would-be writers, contact me for submission details. Would-be editors, I'll have the access details written up in a day or so, so email me now if you haven't already. Finally, what I said before still holds: MJ Ray <markj(a)cloaked.freeserve.co.uk> writes: > Personally, I am particularly interested in having the following: > - Meetings information for the rest (mailing list+memory, anyone?) > - Articles from a new user's point of view > - Reviews of some Linux Games > - Pointers to new-user information > but this is not a concrete list, so feel free to discuss them or > suggest other ideas to the mailing list. > > I'm also *desperate* for more people to help with the site. Workload > should be minimal and everything should be as easy as possible now (at > last!), but it was some time since I asked and I don't know how > situations have changed, so I'm asking again. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Ann: ALUG 2001.1
by MJ Ray 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > The map available for the venue on the website gives me a broken image > icon. As I haven't been before fixing that would be a great help. Odd, it works fine from here. What browser are you using? (Martyn, can we have access to logs for the site, please?) If you want to take this to private email, that's OK to me. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] Ann: ALUG 2001.1
by MJ Ray 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

"John Woodard" <mail(a)johnwoodard.co.uk> writes: > uk.local.eastanglia > uk.comp.os.linux > linux.announce > > any others? comp.os.linux.announce alt.os.linux pcplus.linux? (on another server... can forward if desired) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] IRC Chat
by MJ Ray 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

"Kerin Westgate" <k.westgate(a)btinternet.com> writes: > Sorry to be a pain, but could someone tell me how set IRC on linux please. > Also have you got anymore details on the meeting i.e.. time, date, place, if > you are interested as a newbie to your list and Linux I may be able to offer > some help in a limited way, if the date is ok. Well, it depends what you're using... in the console, epic is probably the best; graphically, X-Chat for Gnome and kvIRC for KDE, I think. We're waiting for BJ to confirm the details of the Syleham meeting. LinuxDay is Sunday 29th April, hopefully at UEA, but still tbc. -- MJR

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IRC Chat
by Kerin Westgate 20 Jan '01

20 Jan '01

Hello Sorry to be a pain, but could someone tell me how set IRC on linux please. Also have you got anymore details on the meeting i.e.. time, date, place, if you are interested as a newbie to your list and Linux I may be able to offer some help in a limited way, if the date is ok. many thanx Kerin

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ALUG's LinuxDay effort
by MJ Ray 19 Jan '01

19 Jan '01

Here are some ideas from an IRC chat this evening. Please comment on them. Main point is that it's probably useful to have a "round table" type discussion at the next meeting about what we're going to do. For those who don't know, my IRC nickname is "slef" and "miniman" is Jonathan Pulfer. Some editing has occurred to make this as short and to-the-point as possible: <miniman> have you got a room booked for UKlinuxday yet? <slef> No, failed again today <miniman> i have subscribed to the list <slef> I've been thinking about possible sponsors <miniman> what about latech computers and other linux friendly shops in norwich <miniman> even PcWorld <slef> Yeah... need to know a cost for that to work, though <slef> Ideal mix would be a computer shop, an ISP, a software company and some other linux-related company <miniman> we'll BJ confirmed the 4th at syleham <miniman> so we should be able to get some ideas from that <slef> here's hoping <slef> looking forward to seeing some new faces <slef> Do we want to do a talk? <miniman> i dunno, but i think we need to get some idea what we are going to host <miniman> and how many ppl we will want to cater for <miniman> whether it be a free for all or an organised install more like a seminar <slef> which, at syleham? <miniman> no, i was thinking along the lines of deciding at syleham <slef> yeah, that's probably good... I'm trying to get a venue around here for another meeting in March, but no luck yet <miniman> we could do with organising some booklets for the new users to take away on linux day with some pointers to information and quick tips and some contact details for us <slef> indeed... the information is almost certainly out there to put together into it <slef> I don't know yet what linuxsure are providing, though <miniman> we must have a couple of ppl on the list that are adept with artwork <miniman> i think we may need to write stuff down at the syleham meeting and try to get some of it sorted <slef> is that an offer to keep notes? <miniman> hmm <miniman> walked right into that ;-) <slef> yeah... I'm cheeky when it means that I might only have to do one person's work ;) <slef> I think maybe we should suggest a sit-down meeting bit an hour into the start or something <miniman> would be good to get some CD's prepared for the day aswell <slef> oh, I'm sure we'll manage that <slef> (keep an eye out on the list though) <slef> How we organise it is more of a problem... production line style? list of experts? some other way? <miniman> i was thinking along the lines of booths with install teams <miniman> so that there isn't a need to search for a particular person <miniman> maybe section on flavor and boot type (clean or dual) <slef> probably a good idea... compile supported hardware and feature lists for each supported one? <slef> then have a front desk doing sorting/advising <miniman> yup <miniman> may be have a demonstration install on the go as well so ppl can watch <slef> yeah, and somewhere for people to go when they're not helping with the installations <slef> (some games and art packages, etc... maybe get someone to bring a digicam or something else they're proud of) <miniman> mm <miniman> some stuff from the sponsers like posters or such <slef> a sort of "Linux gallery" * slef is now known as Tony Hart <miniman> we need input from other members too ;-) <slef> indeed <slef> doesn't stop you mailing them some ideas in advance ;-) * slef holds out more work for miniman to walk into * slef waits to see if he does ...no, he didn't quite. ;-) -- MJR

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Work
by tom potts 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

Hope this doesnt offend too many but the mailing list seems to be used for general rambling so: n agency phoned me last nite looking for someone with NT networking experience to go to a company with 5 or 6 Unix pcs and expand the network to ~120 pcs suposedly running Windows with NT control. A suitable candidate would have a free hand so you might be able to Linux/Star Office the whole thing.... I think the work is in Herts and for 30k+. If your interested and I'll 'introduce' you Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Forthcoming Events: UKUUG Conference (LISA) & DNS Tutorial
by MJ Ray 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

Events info... Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:32:06 +0000 From: Alasdair G Kergon <agk(a)ukuug.org> The emphasis at this year's UK Unix User Group's Winter Conference is the administration of large computer systems/networks. The conference will take place in Newcastle, beginning after lunch on Thurs 8th February and ending over lunch on Friday 9th February, 2001. Immediately preceding the conference, there will be a tutorial on upgrading from Bind 8 to Bind 9. The programme includes: The Design and Implementation of Highly Scalable Email Systems - Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynew SA/NV The Design and Architecture of a Robust Global DNS Infrastructure, GNS - Jim Reid, Nominum Inc. The Design and Implementation of a large DHCP system - Anton Holleman, Atos Origin IBM Mainframe Hardware from a Linux Hacker's Viewpoint - Malcolm Beattie, University of Oxford E-Commerce in Miniature: The Network Connection Booking System at Brunel University - Andrew Findlay, Skills 1st Ltd Managing Coursework using the Web: The Newcastle Electronic Submission System - Lindsay Marshall, University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne Wireless Ethernet @ 11Mbps - Stuart McRobert, Imperial College How traditional security measures will shape up in the 21st century - Andrew Cormack, UKERNA For further details see: http://www.ukuug.org/events/newcastle_2001/ Booking Deadline: 2nd Feb 2001. (Capacity limited: please reserve your place ASAP!) ++++++ The summer Linux Developers' Conference is scheduled for Manchester, Fri 29th June to Sun 1st July. ++++++ Linux Expo is currently being planned for Weds 4th - Thurs 5th July in London. http://www.itevents.co.uk/exhibitions/ ++++++ LinuxTag takes place in Stuttgart (Germany) 5th-8th July 2001. This is now believed to be the world's largest Linux exhibition outside New York - and it's free! http://www.linuxtag.org/2001/english/ ++++++ Alasdair -- agk(a)ukuug.org -- MJR

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