main November 2002

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by MJ Ray 06 Nov '02

06 Nov '02

> Further to this, no the ATI drivers for the ATI Radeon 8500 (also the > FireGL) are non-free So sourceforge hosts non-free software at http://dri.sf.net/ and http://gatos.sf.net/ or are they software ones? If they're software ones, why do they need kernel support? > [...] and for the Radeon 9000 and 9700 there is no support afaict (either > free or non-free) all of these being the fastest ATI cards at the moment. They work via vesa for now, though, but not as accelerated as they could be. I hear talk about code in CVS for them, but evidently that's not end-user stuff now. > [...] were the first company to get all of their mainstream cards working > in Linux with full functionality. [...] For some value of "working" in most cases I've seen. > The other pertinent information is that of course there is much > technology in the drivers which is why Nvidia do not want to open them > to the world at large as they are afraid that ATI et al will steal their > technology and incorporate it into rival products. Of course, this would mean *more* natural selection of ideas, *faster* development of new features (to keep their advantage) and *better* performance for the users, but more *work* for the hardware manufacturers, rather than relying on copyright to get an above-market-value price for their work. We should not have any part of this perversion of copyright to holds back progress. That's the opposite of why it was devised. > [...] What the free software community really needs in the way of support > from the GFX manufacturing community would be the source of the windows > drivers along with the specs of the hardware. I'm not sure this would always help, as it might encourage people to repeat mistakes. Then again, experience does suggest otherwise. Apologies if any questions are stupid, but this is something I'm still learning about by asking. -- MJR

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Sunday
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 05 Nov '02

05 Nov '02

Not sure I'll make the meeting on Sunday, due to family stuff (Partner's dad's 70th), so have a good one. Most disappointed. I may be able to persuade the immediate family to pop by on our way back (if Syleham *is* on the way back to Burwell from Ipswich), but the very word "computer" brings a glazed unfocused look to Mossey's eyes, so I'm not sure. Enjoy, Jenny. :-(

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by MJ Ray 05 Nov '02

05 Nov '02

Adam Bower wrote: > MJ Ray wrote: > > 3d support is still non-free and not recommended. If you want good 3d, > > these are not the cards that you are looking for.</obi-wan> > but they are if you want to play games.... so you have a problematic > choice if games are what floats your boat. Pick a different vendor. > You can buy a GFX card that has open specs and 3d support in Linux, but > you can't play Unreal tournament 2003 (Nvidia are the only people who > support the necessary 3d extensions atm, ATI have said possibly/maybe > (which imho means never) but it isn't here yet) [...] Aren't the ATI drivers open? Then it's not just ATI's choice. You can help make it happen, please. You can contribute to their coding (practially or financially), help test or document them, support them by buying their supported hardware, etc. Then again, is the unreal code open anyway? -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] A tale about Mandrake 9 and a mouse
by Craig 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 10:43:28AM +0000, Chris Walker wrote: > I have a machine which had previously had Mandrake 7.2 on it but this week > decided to go for version 9. I also upgraded the BIOS on the machine in case > that might make a difference. I chose KDE as the desktop and the first > improvement is that sound now works where it didn't before. The problem is > the mouse. It works when I first start the desktop but if the screen saver > cuts in I can't restart the desktop with mouse and it ceases to function > again after that. It all works again as normal after a reboot. Needless to > say I didn't have this problem in 7.2 so any ideas? > > If there is some error log I should have read prior to posting this then feel > free to point me to it. Probably a GPM related issue? -- (o_ .----------------------------------------. //\ | Craig Butcher | http://www.wizball.co.uk| V_/_ | - Using Gentoo GNU/Linux - | `----------------------------------------'

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card - success
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

MJRay wrote: >"dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86" should ask you which X server at the >first step. -svga is v3 and -xfree86 is v4. >> Temper is rising. > >Mine too. Are you ignoring me? > >MJR No, no, not at all, I'm sorry - I just fail to understand a lot of the time. I've now seen what you are saying, done "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86"and have rocketed towards using xserver-xfree86, v4.x, having xf86config-4 file, and xwindow is now working as it should. Many thanks. MJRay previously wrote: >I think I've had one of those working fine in 2d with XFree86 3.x using the >svga binary, or 4.x using the nv driver. Both can be configured as you >install xserver-svga or xserver-xfree86, respectively, or using >dpkg-reconfigure afterwards. I did reinstall xserver-svga. I wasn't ignoring this, just blundering about in the dark. >3d support is still non-free and not recommended. If you want good 3d, >these are not the cards that you are looking for. I don't care about the 3d support, the card is not for games or fancy stuff. I've got this card because it is what work gave me. Seriously - I'm sorry if I waste anyone's time on-list. All the pointers are very welcome even if I do digest them very slowly sometimes. Thanks, Jen.

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Adam Bower wrote: >dpkg -l will let you know what you have installed atm, look for things >that mention X, I think there may be a package xfree86-common which if >you remove that it will remove most of the other things too. Then >apt-get remove things, although what will happen is it will also try and >remove things like your window manager etc. don't delete /etc/X11 that >would be a last resort! OK. I'll have a spring clean in the morning when I come in. Ta muchly. >Are you going to be on irc tonight? if so I can perhaps tell you a >little more then. My phone is still out of order since the large gales, and BT told me today they won't get an engineer out till 11th Nov to mend it. It took half an hour at least to be told that, to add insult to injury. Grrrrrr. Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Ricardo Campus wrote: "Jenny, I'll send u a copy of my XF86Config-4 and the output from dpkg -l when I get home so you can check if you have the correct X packages installed. (I also have true type fonts set up "which is nice") What I had to do to get it working from Potato was to manually remove all the X packages, then manually apt-get install the new ones (apt-get dist-upgrade shagged it up). It's a pain, but if you have a working set of packages to crib from, it makes the job a great deal easier. AFAIK, Woody still has the old X packages included, to aid backwards compatability. So it could be using the old 3.x series... they have *slightly* different package names to the 4.x series... all a bit confusing! Personally, I used the source from Nvidia's site but that's because I was using a more current kernel than Debian were offering at the time. The drivers really do make a difference. wizzzzz! ;) Ricardo" Apt-get install xwindow installed v4.x, however I still can't read an xf86config generated file, section headings aren't recognised, and I still have an XF86Config file rather than XF86config-4. And the logfile for startx shows it is still using v3. So how can I tell Woody I want to use 4 not 3? Perhaps I need to rip out the /etc/X11 directory and begin again like Ricardo has done. Temper is rising. I don't wish to play games, all I want is a screen I can have 4 little xterm windows on at a time. Bah! Thanks, Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Adam Bower wrote: >Have you removed the old X v3. from your system? try perhaps >uninstalling all the X packages from that and possibly 4 and getting it >to install from scratch. There is a possibility that you may want to >look at the command update-alternatives instead though as this selects >different packages when you have a choice of more than one. I would get >rid of all the X packages if it was me though, and then try only >installing Xv4. Yes, I'll be happy to completely clean out all the x stuff and start from scratch. Will I do that via apt-get remove [stuff with x before it] or just delete /etc/X11 and contents, or do i need the dreaded dselect to find out what has been put where? This sort of thing has me flapping about like it was two years ago - I can't tell whether or not part of the x system is v3 or v4. Yours Uselessly Jen.

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nvidia graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Hi list, Has anyone any experience in using an nVidia GeForce 2MX graphics card with Debian? I did an apt-get install nvidia-glx-src but although startx apparently gets xserver up and running there is no visual on F7. (Sorry - a bit lacking in helpful info there, there is a bundle of stuff on screen comes up on the console from which I typed startx but I don't now how to trap it in a file.) How was the meeting? Most sorry not to make it. Jenny.

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Re: [Alug] nvidia graphics card
by Jenny_Hopkins＠toby-churchill.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Adam Bower wrote: >Thats your problem then not having the right (X4.x) version of X >windows, things to check are > >1. which release of Debian >2. can you install different versions of X in the newer releases? >3. have you got the correct sources.list >4. have you run apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade etc... 1. Woody 2. I am now doing an upgrade of w-window-system, see 3 and 4. 3. I didn't have "contrib" on one of my sources. I'll rerun update and upgrade. 4. Yes, I did recently, but see 3. Craig wrote: >Simple... get the nvidia-glx-src and nvidia-kernel-src compiled >(providing that in mind that you have left the kernel source in >/usr/src/linux since it will build against your kernel) > >Then in XF86Config: > >Add the line in Section "Module" > > Load "glx" > >And then: > >In Section "Device" change: > >Driver "nv" > >to > >Driver "nvidia" > >Restart 'X' and you should be on your way. I've been running xf86config and it has been generating a completely incompatible file with such sections as "drivers", and X hasn't liked it at all so I've been writing one out manually with section headings it can deal with. Having old version of xwindows explains a lot. Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes when xwindow has rocketed forward into the 21st century. Jenny.

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