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Re: Freeserve being a big bag of poo?)
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

ahayes(a)ntlworld.com writes: > Steve Fosdick wrote: > > So, back to MJR's email in which he says these are windows > > problems. I beg to differ. I think these are M$ problems > > and if M$ dained to write software for Linux it would be > > fraught with all the same issues. OK, maybe we should say these are Microsoft problems. Trouble is, "Microsoft Virus" sounds so much like one of their products, doesn't it? Maybe it is and they are keeping the anti-virus makers in business ;-) > I also think they are programmer problems. Arguments are made saying > it's the language the programmer uses. For example: "c has buffer > overflows, use perl/whatever!", but once you take out buffer overflows > you end up with the inability of programmers to create a decent > authentication system. (Think hotmail, banks, etc) Yes, ultimately the programmer is responsible, but can you name any other company which so fiercely defends the rights of their programmers to create such cock-ups, are reluctant to fix them once found and prevent others from fixing them? I'm intrigued though: why is the ability to create buffer overflows linked to being able to create authentication systems? Maybe I've just not thought about it enough. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

Ignoring my own advice because I think the communication point is important for all linux advocates. Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. [...] It's not an IIS worm for two reasons: 1/ it uses javascript page modifications on broken IIS boxes and email via Outlook to trick OE and IE to infecting machines who receive data from the infected box; 2/ most Windows users don't know what IIS is anyway, so calling it an "IIS worm" doesn't get the point across. It's a Microsoft Windows Virus. Let's make the mud start sticking. > This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. My estimate from logs at UEA is that between 10 and 20% of web traffic on the UEA network is this virus, although mostly from outside now that iTCS have slapped the compromised machines on campus. I expect more as students in networked rooms plug in, though. It really is a active bugger, this one! > Well I think we have a strong case to prove that Windows is criminally > broken, I wonder if people with rooted iis boxen will finally see the > light when they get the bandwidth bills at the end of the month? You have to remember that the bandwidth bills are also hitting innocents, both because of scans of random IPs, but also because the ISPs will want to pass their costs on. People using Microsoft products are now costing us all money, even if we bought our computers without Windows. This has to stop. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Debian Linux Trouble
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Edenyard" <mail(a)edenyard.co.uk> writes: > with the 'vanilla' one (is that the right term??). Having installed the Yes. > So I'm stumped (again) and my question (eventually!) is: where do I > go from here? Why does the CD drive get locked up like this? (And why > didn't it happen whilst installing Slackware 8?) Might be something about the controller or drive that it doesn't like. I see you have it on hdc (secondary master, usually). Have you tried moving it to the same controller as the hard disk (hdb, primary slave)? If it works then, it's probably that controller it doesn't like. Whether you want to try that depends how comfortable you are with rewiring and moving jumpers. It would give a good clue as to what's wrong, though. Of course, if the two controllers are identical and it works, that's very very strange. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Martyn Drake" <martyn(a)alug.org.uk> writes: > The income will be miniscule, but anything like this that can go towards the > cost of running the server is welcome, and if things work out better than > expected, then funds can then be made available to Alug. Should we derestrict it totally and say that all-comers can advertise on the site in exchange for donations to group funds? Doesn't that mean we should appoint two treasurers to watch over such things on behalf of the LUG? -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by MJ Ray 22 Sep '01

22 Sep '01

"Earl Brannigan" <earl.brannigan(a)lindenhouse.co.uk> writes: > Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because > I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I > have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target > with my real work ! Maybe this is a little naive to say this, but if we're developing for a customer, you can't actually reach us directly by phone. Hopefully prospective customers appreciate that when they pay us money, we work on their stuff and don't get distracted by the sort of long drawn-out conversations a few people like to have about issues that don't really concern us (eg this one). Secretaries are wonderful things (when they get the messages right). ;-) You can always reach us by email, though, and we try to answer all calls the same day. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!
by Earl Brannigan 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi List, >Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> wrote : > Imaging my surprise when I heard that there was another iis worm doing the > rounds! I didn't actually pay any attention to the reports of "another iis > worm, that is going to destroy the internet" as there is a new one every > week. This one after a bit of reading looks as though it is rather nasty > and explains quite alot, I have heard of one person reporting that his > apache server has been probed nearly 10,000,000 times in less than a day. This is getting tiresome, today I had to search very hard to find legitimate accesses in apache's access log. Meanwhile, customers are phoning LR&C saying 'my virus software has just reported that I have some trojan file ... what do I do" I can't say "take windows and IIS off your box !!" (of course non of em knew they had IIS on the box, because they bought SBS off some twat of a reseller who doesn't know a decent server from a pair of pants!) So I tell them to go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com and follow the instructions for installing every bloody patch there is. Then to open up outlook, go to tasks, add one to visit microsoft again tomorrow to do exactly the same, set a reminder and save it. Then I remind them to set it for the day after when they have done it. They say "that's ridiculous - I can't spend ages every day downloading stuff like this" I say - "2 things, firstly I can't spend ages every day telling every one of our customers how to patch their machines (we sell them software - they phone up about everything else expecting help), secondly, spend a couple of minutes every day or spend a month trying to get your system back to life when you get wasted by the next big one. Your Call." So today we find out that a major (BIG) software house (NASDAQ quoted) have just been hit by something, they have no virus protection, HAVEN'T DONE A BCKUP IN 2 YEARS, and guess what... lost loads!. Sorry but I'm not sorry - even remotely. Its simple.... sooooooooo simple I'm not even going to tell you how bloody simple. > > > Anyone for a "Windows Users: You're Wrecking the Internet!" diatribe? > > ;-) Sure - Last night my box was scanned 20 times in a 2 hour session on the web. Surfing was painfully slow. How about, Windows users, You're Too Blasted Stupid to use computers! Here - have an abacus! Sorry, I'm a developer. When I spend 2 days writing 3 lines of code because I can't get off the phone from these Jerks, then it really gets me. Now I have to work late or early or Saturday or something to get back on target with my real work ! Not Happy Best Regs Earl

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What is ctags?
by oms101＠freeuk.com 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

ctags is a utility for speeding up your coding in a variety of languages initi ally for the vi editor (I think only for c initially hence the name). What it does is allow you to have your editor jump to the correct line of your code that defines a function. An example say in nedit you highlifght some code eg "fopen" and press "ALT d" nedit will open the correct header file at the line which defines the function. ctags only works for files included in ctags list of files to scan fortunatly as I discovered a few days ago makedepend lists the files included, and so provides usefull output for ctags input. Regards Owen PS I included some stuff from ctags web site. <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/whatis.html"> What is ctags? Ctags generates an index (or tag) file of C language objects found in C source and header files that allows these items to be quickly and easily located by a text editor or other utility. A tag signifies a C language object for which an index entry is available (or, alternatively, the index entry created for that object). Alternatively, ctags can generate a cross reference file which lists, in human-readable form, information about the various objects found in a set of C language files. Tag index files are supported by the vi editor and its derivatives (such as vim, elvis, stevie, xvi) through the use of the ":ta" command, and by the emacs editor through the use of the "Meta-." command, both of which locate the object associated with a name. There are other a number of other editors which support tag files. </quote> <quote ref="http://ctags.sourceforge.net/tools.html"> Editors which support CTAGS generated tag files Vi-style editors Vim, the official editor of Exuberant Ctags Vile Lemmy, a vi clone [Windows 95/NT]. Other vi clones Other editors CRiSP [Unix, Windows 95/NT] Emacs FTE (Folding Text Editor) [Unix, Windows 95/NT, MSDOS, OS/2] JED [Unix, VMS, MSDOS, OS/2, BeOS, QNX, Win 9X/NT] NEdit (Nirvana Edit), a GUI editor [Unix with Motif] TSE (The SemWare Editor) [Windows 95/NT] X2 [Unix, Windows 95] Zeus for Windows Tools using CTAGS Code Crusader CShow (greps C functions out of source code) FLTags [Unix] hypersrc [Unix] IDEntify [Unix] Workspace Whiz! [Win32] VIDE (V Integrated Development Environment [Unix and Windows 9x/NT] </quote> I hope you find this interesting Owen On 21-Sep-01 Ashley T. Howes Ph.D. wrote: > on 19/9/01 7:43 pm, oms101(a)freeuk.com at oms101(a)freeuk.com wrote: > >> I was about to write a program today to go through my source code and find >> all >> the files included. I did a search on the internet and only found a windows >> program, the reason being that the linux program was something so standard I >> had missed it. Its called makedepend and ran as such >> >> makedepend main.cpp -f- >> >> produces output as such >> >> main.c.o: /usr/include/_G_config.h /usr/include/alloca.h >> /usr/include/assert.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/confname.h /usr/include/bits/endian.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/environments.h /usr/include/bits/huge_val.h >> main.c.o: /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h /usr/include/bits/mathcalls.h >> >> but produces a few more lines. >> >> I then process the output into ctags and can find the definition of any bit >> of >> code I want. > > What's a ctag? > > > Ashley > > > > Date: 21-Sep-01 Time: 13:58:17

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Rackspace Affliate = Dosh for Alug?
by Martyn Drake 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Hi, Would anybody object to having a small Rackspace logo and link placed on the main Alug web site? Main reason for it, is that if anybody clicks through and signs up, Alug will receive 50% of the first month's hosting fee of whoever signs up. This will help pay towards the upkeep of the server for that month, and anything extra can be used for the group itself for whatever it needs. Thoughts? Opinions? BK Flamer? Regards, Martyn

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Re: [Alug] Freeserve being a big bag of poo?
by MJ Ray 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

Adam Bower <abower(a)thebowery.co.uk> writes: > Anyway, I just signed up with freeserve not much more than a week ago and > their data transfer for webpages seems abysmal? [...] There are four access numbers for freeserve, not all of which work in all parts of the country. They actually connect over totally different networks from the telco level up (and there's one which leaves BT at the local exchange), so performance varies between them. A quick look on groups.google or the freeserve.help.anytime group should get the numbers for you, as I don't have them to hand. There are two sets of web proxy caches, one transparent and one normal. If one is screwing up, sometimes the other works fine. Try toggling your proxy settings. It sounds like the trans ones are broken from what you say. Replies to social(a)lists.alug, please, as this isn't terribly Linuxish. -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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Re: [Alug] Suitable threads on main [was: Freeserve being a big
by MJ Ray 21 Sep '01

21 Sep '01

oms101(a)freeuk.com writes: > > Announce - Announcements for all things Alug (meetings, etc.) > Makes sence to me we currently use main for this and if we are all > dividing up the groups we need one central point to look at and > subscribe to with very low posting numbers. No, we don't use main for this. There's announce(a)lists.alug.org.uk, but no-one else ever seems to want to post to it (HintHint). I also try to pick the best bits of the main list for it, too. > > Main - Meetings discussion, Linux (installing/config) > > help/discussion, etc > Is not this Main's job as well as install issues and configuration Yep, I think help should stay on main. I think we probably should re-open the old discussion about what people want to see on here. Well, anyone else got opinions on it? Anyone able to write a really great summary of what we want to see on main? I'll add it to the welcome message and web site if you do. > > Social - BBQs a plenty, vaguley Linux related meets and greets, etc. > OK some people want to filter out sillyness. Moo. Actually, it's more to give an outlet for this group of people on things that are really off-topic on the main list, just to avoid having some of the more flammable members calling people "ignorant pigs" (whoops there go the content filters again). More people should subscribe to it (HintHint). > > Developers - discussion for any developers out there (coding, IDEs, etc) > Is not this as central to linux as playing with the config and more of a main > list thing, if this is going to happen maybe a sysadmin list should exist. Maybe hackers(a)lists.alug might be a better name? I think that there are some people who just want to *use* Linux for interesting tasks, rather than hacking around all day. Or does everyone like to hear about the latest tech as well as seeing questions answered and meetings organised? > I know not all of us have toll free internet but at least all our > mails are plain text so the band width is not that bad. [...] I think it's more a human problem than a practical one. Some people just can't read 1000 mails/week, which is what we'd surely do if we let this list go wild. PS - Owen, your mail client appears to truncate subject lines :-/ -- MJR Thesis watch: 27% This is my personal web site =-> http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ http://www.alug.org.uk/ <-- This is the LUG I go to I work for this clever internet developer ==> http://www.luminas.co.uk/

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