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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> writes: > The first and easiest is to make subscription into a two step process. I think it already is. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by David Freeman 07 May '01

07 May '01

-- Steve Fosdick <fozzy(a)pelvoux.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:02:08AM -0700, David Freeman wrote: > > > But I've just written my first kernel MODULE!!! and it work, which > was > > a big surprise > > What does it do? Prints Hello World of course, a programmer like you should know that thats the first program you always right :o) Seriously when you insmod it it prints hello world. and when you rmmod it prints goodbye cruel world. > > One language I don't want to learn is C++. > > I am interested as to why you should say that. > > I get the impression that there are many people who think that C++ > isn't a terribly pure language or that it doesn't have a particularly > clean design. It is, however, very sucessful. True, bit like windows :o) > I don't think there is any doubt that a language such as C++ is a > compromise as C was before it, but compromise isn't necessarily bad. Exactly, and a compromise is the worst parts of all solutions. The language I am liking at the moment is java, it just makes sense with the OO design etc... > Considering C, I would suggest that without a language like C there > would be no portable OS like Unix and Linux. Writing in Assembler > would give the required level of run time efficiency and the ability > to talk to the hardware when required but not the portability, and > just about every other language would have been too inefficient, or > unable to access the hardware at the required level. I would agree, C was one of those things which changed history, without it we would never have the computer revolution we have now. It is however over 30 yrs old, which means it's not as modern and good as a language which was designed recently. > When it comes to the emergence of C++ I would suggest that run time > efficiency was still a concern, but there was the added incentive to > use C++ - compatibility with C. Agreed. > As time goes by, run time efficiency is becoming less of a concern > and > p-code and interpreted languages are now quite realistic for > "serious" > applications - even so, someone in our office was complaining today > how > much slower the Oracle GUI tools written in Java (8.1.6) are than the > previous ones (7.3.4) not written in Java (I would guess at C++ but > that is just a guess). Exactly, some of the things which in the past would be written such that they would run fast, but now powerful hardware can coverup alot of bad practice. > > I Am amazed that there is such a holy war about programming > > languages, particully the language people first learnt was there > > favourite and all others are programmed as if they were using the > > first language. > > I'm not sure that this is the case. There is with alot of people I know who program. > The first language I learnt was BASIC on the Sinclair ZX81. All > variable names had to be kept short, there were no blocks, no named > functions or procedures, IF statements couldn't have an ELSE part, > there was no DO WHILE or REPEAT UNTIL so there had to be lots of > GOTOs > and GOSUBs. BBC basic @ 9 yrs old, horrible language, then Visual Basic - I agree with ESR "about as uch fun as a picnic in a toxic waste dump" Z80 assembler and then C. Since learing C I have learnt Java and it makes more sense to me than procedural programming. > I would not be caught programming now in the way that I had to for > that version of basic. Take a look at your older code, you will notice you did very BASIC things in C, I know I have tried these things. > I think it may be the case though that the general methodology that > one first learns becomes the default. Those people whose first taste > was with procedural programming may always find that more natural > than > OO or the kind of thinking required for Advanced use of SQL. Yes I would agree with this. Thanks D > Steve. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > alug, the Anglian Linux User Group list > Send list replies to alug(a)stu.uea.ac.uk > http://rabbit.stu.uea.ac.uk/cgi-bin/listinfo/alug > See the website for instructions on digest or unsub! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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-newbie list
by Peter Delf 07 May '01

07 May '01

I like the idea of starting a -newbie list to separate the beginners from the hardcore. I think all this talk about PHP/mySQL/XML databases and stuff is enough to scare off anyone thinking of trying Linux. Not quite a linux user, yet. My first post, thankyou. /( )` \ \___ / | /- _ `-/ ' (/\/ \ \ /\ / / | ` \ Peter Delf O O ) / | p.delf(a)uea.ac.uk `-^--'`< ' (_.) _ ) / SYS U1, `.___/` / University of East Anglia, `-----' / Norwich, <----. __ / __ \ Norfolk, <----|====O)))==) \) /====England <----' `--' `.__,' \ | | http://www.uea.ac.uk/~u9947868 \ / ______( (_ / \______ ,' ,-----' | \ `--{__________) \/

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List splitting
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

This list is getting busy now and some people are unsubscribing because of the volume. What should we do? 1. Do nothing. Leave alug@stu as the one list and hope people use digest etc to filter it. 2. Split list. Break certain topics off into other lists. a) alug (LUG traffic only), alug-announce (announcements only), alug-talk (general chatter not necessarily ALUG-related) b) alug (as it has been usually), alug-hackers (in-depth tech talk) c) alug (as it has been this week), alug-help (general help) 3. Gateway onto a private news server somewhere. Should make it easier for people to only download stuff they want, but is possibly incompatible with the previously-discussed spam blocking. 4. Something else. -- MJR

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Newbie needs help
by linux user stuff 07 May '01

07 May '01

Hi, Following a successful install of RedHat 6.0 on an older machine I have recently changed to a Mandrake 7.2 and a quicker machine with all the bells and whistles on the motherboard. This includes networking, sound and USB. I don't have any USB devices but I'm blowed if I can get networking or sound working. The error is similar in both cases. The machine complains that the device or resource is busy. The only book I have refers to RH 4 something and I've lent that to somebody so it's not immediately to hand. Can anybody offer sensible suggestions as to how I can fix these problems? TIA. -- __ __| |_ __ __ .------------------------------------------. / _/ _` \ V V / | mailto:linux@wymondham.demon.co.uk | \__\__,_|\_/\_/ |__________________________________________|

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Re: [Alug] Increasing spam
by MJ Ray 07 May '01

07 May '01

Andrew Savory <a.savory(a)btinternet.com> writes: > > 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can > > sent without being approved. > Seems a reasonable course of action. We don't get many unsubscribed valid > people wanting to post, do we? Until we throw the switch, I can't tell. So, everyone, take this as a warning: make sure *now* that your emails appear to come from the same email address as you are subscribed from. In a few days, the list settings will be changed to allow only subscribers to post without approval. All others will be held for review (not bounced). > > 6. We can ask Brett to hook the list software up to ORBS or MAPS. > Seems fair. Brett, are you out there? Can you make exim add warning headers to matches on the blackhole lists, please? Then I will hold anything generating an ORBS or MAPS-RBL warning for approval. -- MJR

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Weekly IRC meeting reminder
by Adam Bower 07 May '01

07 May '01

This is the automated ALUG irc meeting reminder sent to remind you that there is an irc meeting tonight (Monday) at 8.00pm. The meeting takes place on the irc server irc.openprojects.net in the #alug channel, you can take a look at www.openprojects.net to get more info on the openprojects network. Popular irc clients include tkirc, bitchx, xchat and ircII on Unix, and Mirc under windows. Here are some links to help you get started with irc. Unix http://www.bitchx.com http://www.xchat.org http://freshmeat.net http://www.epicsol.org/ (for Brett!) Windows http://www.mirc.com (loads of help with irc for newbies!)

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Re [ALUG] Increasing Spam
by Mills 06 May '01

06 May '01

MJ Ray wrote: > We're getting more spam now. There are a number of options open to > us: [snipped] > 2. We can lock the list down so that only subscribed addresses can > sent without being approved. Do you mean only subscribers can post to this list? In my experience lists that allow non-members to post have spam, ones that don't, do not have spam. I have not been to any of the IRC meetings as an (ex-CWC) NTL user I cannot get free access to the Internet (i.e. call charges). I hope to get a cable modem if NTL hurries up. I was the person at Linuxday (at the UEA) who was given the Debian CD-R that was burned there. I now have installed it successfully. By the way do you think the Donald Knuth books are worth buying? As for the ALUG language debate :-), how about Miranda, which is available for Linux. Another possibility is that you could use Yag assembler which I am developing, perhaps a version LISP could be created for it. As the project is open we could develop clients in whatever languages liked, may be. If XHTML is I could use my web broswer as a client. PS Netscape sent this to Mark by mistake the first time, sorry. Yours Tarquin Mills

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Re: [Alug] MS Access
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > I need a app for linux which is compatable with MS access and provides > most of the same functionality as Access. [...] I believe PGAccess and Gnome-DB provide much of the same functionality, but I don't think anything is *compatible* with MS Access. Star Office might have something, but I don't have that to hand to look. Sorry, your tutor is hell-bent on making MS's money, it would seem. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Very True, but what method would you suggest instead of a clutch? Continuously Varying Ratios, what else? People don't like them because they don't sound or behave like a "conventional" car, though. > Personally I think OO is very sensible, but everything needs to be OO, > which Java and C++ aren't. Small talk I believe is the closest thing we > have to a true OO langauge. [...] Now this is why Ruby is attracting many compliments: everything is an object, so it is said. _Everything_. And it's been like that since the start. Anyone able to debunk those claims for me? ;-) > BBC basic was good for the reasons above, but bad cos it used goto's > etc... BBC BASIC *had* GOTO, but didn't *USE* it on its own ;-) -- MJR

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