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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

David Freeman <david_freeman(a)rocketmail.com> writes: > Very True, but what method would you suggest instead of a clutch? Continuously Varying Ratios, what else? People don't like them because they don't sound or behave like a "conventional" car, though. > Personally I think OO is very sensible, but everything needs to be OO, > which Java and C++ aren't. Small talk I believe is the closest thing we > have to a true OO langauge. [...] Now this is why Ruby is attracting many compliments: everything is an object, so it is said. _Everything_. And it's been like that since the start. Anyone able to debunk those claims for me? ;-) > BBC basic was good for the reasons above, but bad cos it used goto's > etc... BBC BASIC *had* GOTO, but didn't *USE* it on its own ;-) -- MJR

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[Kevin Taylor <kevin@eala.uklinux.net>] [lugmaster] UK LUG News - start posting!
by MJ Ray 06 May '01

06 May '01

Am I becoming The Daily Spam or what? From: Kevin Taylor <kevin(a)eala.uklinux.net> Subject: UK LUG News - start posting! Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:49:17 +0100 I have finally gotten around to linking up to the news feed from thinkopen.co.uk (it used to be linuxuk.co.uk). The news section of lug.org.uk now pulls in all articles posted to thinkopen under the LUGS topic. So, instead of writing reports, etc, by hand (as I had done in the past) you are all invited to post any details of events, meetings, news, whatever you would like published, to thinkopen.co.uk (there is also a submit link from our lug.org.uk news page too). Have a look (although there is not too much present at the moment ...) by visting the news pages of lug.org.uk. (Does anyone want to start the ball rolling with a comment about their linuxday event for example?) As always, comments are invited. Kevin. -- MJR

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06 May '01

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Where history comes from.
by David Freeman 05 May '01

05 May '01

As many of you know the history is in the T-shirts, but this isn't really that relevent to what I was going to say, which was: BJ mentioned at the last meet we should get some T-shirts made. Which sounded like a bloody good idea. So I thought I would have aplay with some ideas. 1) Alug logo on back of T-shirt 2) as one but with ALUG below 3) as one but with ALUG in hex below 41 4C 55 47 4) as one but with ALUG in morse below .- -.- ..- --. 5) Tux on back with: a) ALUG in HEX 41 4c 55 47 b) ALUG in Binary 01000001 01001100 01010101 01000111 c) ALUG in Morse .- -.- ..- --. d) ALUG in borring text. ALUG What do people think? Suggestions please? Thanks D __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

Neill Newman <neill(a)entora.co.uk> writes: > Sz - K&R brackets are the only way to go ;) GNU Coding Standards, damnit! Oh, ah, whoops. -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

"Adrian F. Clark" <alien(a)essex.ac.uk> writes: > What XML does is allow the database developer to define the _content_ > of what will eventually become a web page using application-oriented > tags and without having to worry about the page's appearance. In *theory*, you don't worry about appearance for most of the time in LaTeX. As with HTML, reality bites. > [...] In principle (though I've never seen it done) XML could > produce LaTeX so that we could get typeset output that looks better > than what spews out of Netscape, which is definitely of the same > kind of abysmal quality as Word. Well, you can look at this two ways: firstly, there are LaTeX ways to produce XML and manipulate XML (I think it's xmltex, but that might be wrong); secondly, XML can be rendered to FOP and then to PDFs which aren't bad at all, especially combined with SVG. However, it all smacks of reinventing wheels again, doesn't it? > The advantage XML over (say) keyword-value pairs is that XML allows > the developer to build up a tree-like structure that can be parsed and > processed by a standard piece of software. Indeed, but S-expressions (lispish ones to the rest of you) never really caught on, did they? Once again, the lispers got it right 40 years before everyone else, but have nothing to show for it but the knowledge that they were right 40 years before... > Anyway, Neill is using lyx, not pukka LaTeX -- urghhhh! Eeek, using a non-free library to boot! Burn him at the viva! ;-) -- MJR

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Re: [Alug] ALUG Library ...
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

jo(a)yee-ha.demon.co.uk writes: > May I point out FastTemplates? It's a PHP class that allows you to > completely separate content from code. Templating systems only fix half the problem. You still end up with your data interface layer smashed into your system logic, and your program code sat in servable files and repeatedly reinterpreted. Yes, you can overcome both of these, but why not start with a framework which has the bits in the right places? To me, PHP is only good for quick little web toys. Flame me now. -- MJR Mr Ray has emigrated to beyond that very very big mountain and is urgently seeking a supplier of asbestos underclothes.

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[Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor@gmx.co.uk>] UK Organisation for Open Source software in education
by MJ Ray 04 May '01

04 May '01

spam4u Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:38:15 +0200 (MEST) From: Kevin Taylor <kevin.taylor(a)gmx.co.uk> Subject: UK Organisation for Open Source software in education The UK OSiE initiative is moving forward, and we are looking for organisations/vendors/schools/etc who are interested in the use of Open Source software in education to add themselves into our lists. Could you maybe forward this message to your LUGs, (if you think it appropriate) so that anyone involved with education knows about what we are up to ...? Interested people should have a browse through our developers site at: http://osie.sourceforge.net/ Thanks, Kevin (Northants LUG and OSiE) -- MJR

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Please Forgive me
by Earl Brannigan 04 May '01

04 May '01

Sorry everyone, just posted and included the entire previous digest. (Well I thought after being 'reprimanded' for the long signature I'd get my own back!!) ;o) Cheers Have a good weekend Earl

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ALUG Library tranche 2
by brodders＠cwcom.net 04 May '01

04 May '01

Ooookay. Thanks all! Many ideas, but 1st port of call has to be a server. Doesn't ALUG have a server connected to UEA's JANET? Isn't that what we'd want? Had a look at http://www.uklinux.net/membership/ Free MySQL / PostgreSQL / PHP /Perl is for account holders calling from a LoCall number (0845 ono). If you dial up via other ISP's you don't get the databases. Well you can for £25 a year. That's for a single account; don't know what uklinux would think of a group of people using 1 account. Looks useful though. Postgres seems to have more approval over MySQL. What's the reason behind this? Also, I hold no Postgres documentation. This will cramp my style as I've no net connection evenings. Anyone got some PostgreSQL books? Have been following up suggestions & stuff on web. Could use koha - could use a nice PHP+MySQL app MyOrgBook (http://www.it-firm.com) These can show solutions / be a source of ideas; personally would like to be creative rather then copy. NFIT! How is Zeus?? I see admin type roles as something to avoid; suspect we can't eliminate completely but do have some thoughts. ASSUMING we trust ALUG people who've been through some security protocol (is this a can of worms I see before me?) then we might assign permissions by context of what they want to do. E.g. current holder of a book has authority to return it or assign it to a requestor. If we gave this some thought might be able to do without the librarian role. See my ravings below. Want to minimise demands at client end (Java?). Who is expert to adjudicate on this? This all seems to nicely fall into the classic client / server duties ...Brett, are you volunteering to do the client / GUI side of things? Dave, need to talk more about this - what's the form for big posts on such stuff? I am peripatetic so don't have web/IRC to hand - days can pass before I get posts. Hm. Anyhow glue technology consensus seems: Postgres - Java / JDBC - Perl ALUGL Schema 0.1 is below - rip it to bits people! Why won't it work? Where is it cumbersome? It's fairly normalised - must it be more? Tricks to speed it up? Security considerations? Too complex? Something missing? [key things to look for - errors and omissions] Dave, I've not attempted to integrate your schema into this version. ALUG Library Schema 0.1 Item Table ================================================== Item_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_Type 1=book, 2=mass media, 3=hardware, 4=hat etc Title char 128 (name of item) ISBN 16 char (??) Publisher 128 char (manufacturer) Author 128 char (model) Edition 6 char Published date YYYY-MM (bought date) Return Mode 1=back to ALUG, 2=wanders, 3=back to owner Last Transaction => pointer to Tx Table.Tx_ID <Danger Will Robinson> Owned By => pointer to Person Table.Person.ID Description 8096 char or note field Condition Last Seen 1=new, 2=good, 3=poor, 4=scrap/discard Last Seen datestamp Entry Created datestamp Entry Updated datestamp Thus we can loan hats - or anything. They can return to ALUG always, the owner - or just wander about, person to person- more convenient that way. <Danger> Last Tx - not normal form & redundant but handy. Alas it turns a mostly read-only table into a read/write - I think it has to go, to minimise locks and write problems. Person Table ================================================== Person_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric First Name 32 char Last Name 128 char Alias 32 char (alternative name) Password hmm. How to get this secure? How much security needed? Aka => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID (1st (last) entry is ZERO) Phone 16 char Email 32 char Entry Created datestamp (DO we need address info??) Aka is about name changes etc. using a linked list; old name is still on system. Deleting old names dangles inbound pointers. Tx Table i.e. Transaction Table =================================================== Tx_ID Primary key: Auto incrementing numeric Item_ID => pointer to Item Table.Item_ID Now With => pointer to Person Table.Person_ID Due Back YYYY-MM-DD Tx_Type 1=added to system, 2=borrowing, 3=discarded, 4=stocktake, 5=lost, 6=returned, 7=request Tx_Date datestamp Every transaction gets an entry. Due Back might be auto-set or agreed on the spot - even blank for long-term loan. Forms Needed ================================================== 1.1 Add Item 1.2 Edit Item 2.1 Add Person 2.2 Edit Person 3. New Transaction (loan, return, request, stocktake) With a little thought, we may be able to do without much admin. eg: (current borrower | owner ) has permission to create a Return or Loan. Anyone can Add Item. Owner only can Edit Item. Anyone can Add Person. Person only can Edit Person or Add Person as an Aka. Anyone can create a request. Need a proper state diagram showing permissions at each point; need to inspect this to see if any state gets painted into a corner. Queries ========================================== Where is Item? (= search for item) => links to Request & Loan Item transaction When does Item return? => links to Request Item transaction What has Person borrowed What has Person loaned out List all out List all in List all Items due back in next X days List overdues List Tx history Item, latest at top (could double as the search form) List Tx history Person (could double as the borrowings form) Auto-email for overdues & Person-has-requested-item-you-hold would be nice. ALUG would be created as a Person. Quick! Save it before it gets away! -Steve

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