On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Mills wrote:
Raphael Mankin wrote:
<flamewar> As an employer of programmers of some 30 years experience I find that CS graduates are generally a dead loss. I would much rather employ English or Philosophy graduates: at least they know that they don't know. They also tend to have some knowledge of the world outside computers, unlike the CS graduates who can best be described as pig ignorant. </flamewar>
Please apologize for these comments.
Why the hell should anyone apologize for that!! It is an opinion, of which others don't agree, anyway here is my take on this I wasn't going to reply as I didn't want to generate any flamebait but however.....
My experience is that CS grads can be very good however most are only about average. If you do get a programmer who has a degree in some other subject then usually they are better than the CS student as they are thinking "out of the box" whereas CS students are quite often all taught to be sheep (as in they all learn more or less the same thing).
I am not saying that if you are a CS student (or grad) that you are crap, just that getting a degree in CS doesn't automatically make you an expert.
I have plenty of experience of people who never did a degree being absolutley s***hot when it comes to coding but this is probably as they are gifted in the art of programming, and I also think that if they had done a degree in CS then they could of learnt many bad habits or been taught to not be original.
Anyway I am just using my right to free speech... feel free to flame me or discuss futher
PS the reply-to on this mail was set incorrectly, I have changed it back to the main address and to the social list where this may be better discussed from now as it could degenerate!
Adam
On 14-Sep-01 Adam Bower wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Mills wrote:
Raphael Mankin wrote:
<flamewar> As an employer of programmers of some 30 years experience I find that CS graduates are generally a dead loss. I would much rather employ English or Philosophy graduates: at least they know that they don't know. They also tend to have some knowledge of the world outside computers, unlike the CS graduates who can best be described as pig ignorant. </flamewar>
Please apologize for these comments.
Why the hell should anyone apologize for that!! It is an opinion, of which others don't agree, anyway here is my take on this I wasn't going to reply as I didn't want to generate any flamebait but however.....
You have go me on my hobby horse so ... <rant> I finished my schooling in the early 60s, before most of you were born. In that I was lucky. During the 70s there was a period when 'teaching' was a dirty word: children were supposed to discover, not be taught. Teaching was held to inhibit their development. Those of you going through university now, or recently graduated, have been taught by teachers who are the product of that doctrine. That is, your teachers are themselves ignorant. You cannot therefore be surprised if, by the standards of just a few decades ago, you are considered ignorant.
There is now a move to recover the situation, to inculcate some sort of notion of a 'standard of education'. For most of you, however, it is too late; your children will benefit, but you are the product of incompetent teachers and, unless you are really determined, it will be very difficult for you to recover the situation.
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Raphael Mankin wrote:
<rant> I finished my schooling in the early 60s, before most of you were born. In that I was lucky. During the 70s there was a period when 'teaching' was a dirty word: children were supposed to discover, not be taught. Teaching was held to inhibit their development. Those of you going through university now, or recently graduated, have been taught by teachers who are the product of that doctrine. That is, your teachers are themselves ignorant. You cannot therefore be surprised if, by the standards of just a few decades ago, you are considered ignorant.
I am lucky then, I removed myself from the conventional education at age 13 or 14 I forget the details. Since then I have gained one GCSE in maths which was attained in a state of drunkeness (both parts) at the highest available level since then I thought education was a load of pants. I did attempt a start at an OU CS degree last year but it bored me so much that I gave it up at the end of the term, I was also p***ed off with the misrepresentation of the real world....
Interestingly today I find myself the victim of being stuck in a world where 3 potential employers are throwing offers at me to get me to work for them while I am indifferent to which one I end up at (well almost personal reasons account for something) as they are all the same but I am hanging out for basically the most cash... (I really hope they are not reading this thread though.....)
But all of these employers are asking for a degree in each position, but of course I have none. So this means they are haggling over nothing or experience or word of mouth??? I personally don't know what this means but I hope this means I am going to be employed from Monday onwards.....
Adam
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Adam Bower -
Raphael Mankin